UK to AUS what boat?

[capnsensible]

Not to mention the control lines.

I may just be naturally clumsy, but when some years ago I delivered an Oyster 406 (centre cockpit) fitted with a Monitor wind vane I found all these lines to be a bit of a trip hazard.

We got a Hydrovane on the back of our centre cockpit Moody. One bit of string, easy.

 

[Javelin]

Hadn't thought about a Koopmans, daft really as last week I was admiring them in Holland and remember wondering why yo don't see that many flying a red ensign.
In fact I had a chat with another forumite at the yard the other day and he remarked about how are the Dutch able to make such great blue water cruising yachts and how they seem to fly under the radar.

The 1990's 12m moody would be good except for the lack of headroom apart from the center of the main saloon.
I like the look of the Amel in the photos but confess I've not worked or sailed on one so not in a position to make a judgment.
Island packet would be nice but would struggle to get a good one within the budget similar story with the HR's.

As far at the myriad of other awb's that are available (though there are exceptions) on the face of it look like superb value for money, I've spent too many times in the bowels of such carrying out repairs and have delivered many that has convinced me that I wouldn't want to be on one when things get nasty, let alone recommending such to a customer and their family.

 

[Tranona]

As far at the myriad of other awb's that are available (though there are exceptions) on the face of it look like superb value for money, I've spent too many times in the bowels of such carrying out repairs and have delivered many that has convinced me that I wouldn't want to be on one when things get nasty, let alone recommending such to a customer and their family.

Just wonder if that is the case how do people manage so successfully (as capnsensible describes)? Where is your evidence that they are not safe?

Your list of "exceptions" might make interesting reading.

 

[geem]

Just wonder if that is the case how do people manage so successfully (as capnsensible describes)? Where is your evidence that they are not safe?

Your list of "exceptions" might make interesting reading.

He didnt say they werent safe but a light high volume, flat bottomed hull will never be as comfortsble in rough conditions as a narrower hull that doesnt slam. If you are doing long ocean passages with just a couple onboard you are likly to encounter rough weather at some point. The ability to get some sleep in rough conditions is a higher consideration than you might think. Taking a 46ft Bavaria with several crew to do a fast ocean passage is not the same as a husband and wife crew. You tend not to drive the boat so hard as you time off watch is substantially less. Three hours on three hours off 24/7 is the norm for a crew of two. You will always find somebody who takes an AWB and does some long passages but thats not for me. I want a little more security of knowing that I am in a boat that will comfortably deal with the rough stuff not simply get away with it

 

[capnsensible]

He didnt say they werent safe but a light high volume, flat bottomed hull will never be as comfortsble in rough conditions as a narrower hull that doesnt slam. If you are doing long ocean passages with just a couple onboard you are likly to encounter rough weather at some point. The ability to get some sleep in rough conditions is a higher consideration than you might think. Taking a 46ft Bavaria with several crew to do a fast ocean passage is not the same as a husband and wife crew. You tend not to drive the boat so hard as you time off watch is substantially less. Three hours on three hours off 24/7 is the norm for a crew of two. You will always find somebody who takes an AWB and does some long passages but thats not for me. I want a little more security of knowing that I am in a boat that will comfortably deal with the rough stuff not simply get away with it

No boat is comfortable in rough seas and most people wouldn't notice any difference whatever boat they are on.

My wife and I have sailed across the Atlantic four times on our Moody 33, twice on our own.

 

[Tranona]

He didnt say they werent safe but a light high volume, flat bottomed hull will never be as comfortsble in rough conditions as a narrower hull that doesnt slam. If you are doing long ocean passages with just a couple onboard you are likly to encounter rough weather at some point. The ability to get some sleep in rough conditions is a higher consideration than you might think. Taking a 46ft Bavaria with several crew to do a fast ocean passage is not the same as a husband and wife crew. You tend not to drive the boat so hard as you time off watch is substantially less. Three hours on three hours off 24/7 is the norm for a crew of two. You will always find somebody who takes an AWB and does some long passages but thats not for me. I want a little more security of knowing that I am in a boat that will comfortably deal with the rough stuff not simply get away with it

The key words in your post are "not for me" but there are clearly many who are satisfied, including 2 person crews. You are just repeating what you always say when this subject comes up, ignoring the evidence that others find the boats perfectly satisfactory for the job.

 

[geem]

The key words in your post are "not for me" but there are clearly many who are satisfied, including 2 person crews. You are just repeating what you always say when this subject comes up, ignoring the evidence that others find the boats perfectly satisfactory for the job.

Here we go again Tranoma. You have never crossed an ocean but you have lots to say about it. I have said it before and I will say it again not for your benefit but for the benefit of others reading this. MOST people who sail oceans don't sail in modern flat bottom lightly ballasted yachts. The Ocean Cruising Club 2500 members boat list has very few Bavs, Jens, Bens. It's a fact. You will always find people that will choose a light mass produced boat for ocean sailing as they are cheap but they are not the majority of boats out there sailing oceans.

 

[capnsensible]

Here we go again Tranoma. You have never crossed an ocean but you have lots to say about it. I have said it before and I will say it again not for your benefit but for the benefit of others reading this. MOST people who sail oceans don't sail in modern flat bottom lightly ballasted yachts. The Ocean Cruising Club 2500 members boat list has very few Bavs, Jens, Bens. It's a fact. You will always find people that will choose a light mass produced boat for ocean sailing as they are cheap but they are not the majority of boats out there sailing oceans.

Not so sure about that. From what I've seen, I would say that the numbers of people crossing in the vessels you describe have been increasing all the time over the last 20 years or so. Catamarans too. On this point, I agree with Tranona.

 

[wotayottie]

Had some nice folk here today wanting to look at a newish Southerly 40' with a view to sail it from the UK to AUS.
I simply told them it was possible BUT there are much better boats for the journey whilst the Southerly would be great once you got there.
There's a hell of a difference between a trade wind 25 day hop across the Atlantic and turning left at the Cape.
Anyway I'm a sailor and boat builder first, not a broker so I'm happy to advise folk away from making expensive wrong decisions.

So given a budget of 80 to 100k
Allowing a further 20 to 30k to prep the boat for the trip with the necessary gear and equipment
Require at least 6'4" headroom (which the Southerly also didn't have, in common with the Ovni so that's ruled out as well)
Maximum loa of 43'
A sailor first rather than a wheel house.
Comfortable for three adults.
Centre cockpit or at the very least a decent lump of boat aft of the steering position and capable of fitting wind steering gear.

My first thought was an Oyster 435, as we have one here at the yard that I could show them round and a boat I know well having sailed and delivered 435's 1000's of miles in the past.

Any others you can think of that might fit the bill?

So why not the Southerly? Enough of them have circumnavigated and from what everyone says to me the problems in such a trip are boat maintenence above all. So a new Southerly should be better than an old Oyster

 

[geem]

Not so sure about that. From what I've seen, I would say that the numbers of people crossing in the vessels you describe have been increasing all the time over the last 20 years or so. Catamarans too. On this point, I agree with Tranona.

Which point is it you actually agree with? True, people crossing in AWBs is on the increase but thats what builders are building and they are cheap by comparison to having a yacht built for ocean cruising. The number of people crossing in catamaran is increasing as well. I first crossed in a catamaran in 2004 and there were very few doing it then. Lots now but they are big catamarans and very expensive compared to a 40ft AWB.

 

[Seven Spades]

You want a boat with big tanks. just about nothing will get you there. The heavier the better the ride but might take longer. However, for independence you need large tanks and this is why I would look for. Look at 500+l of fuel. You make water but you need plants of fuel.

 

[geem]

A good site from across the pond gives some good tips on what to consider when looking for an ocean sailing boat
http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html

 

[capnsensible]

Which point is it you actually agree with? True, people crossing in AWBs is on the increase but thats what builders are building and they are cheap by comparison to having a yacht built for ocean cruising. The number of people crossing in catamaran is increasing as well. I first crossed in a catamaran in 2004 and there were very few doing it then. Lots now but they are big catamarans and very expensive compared to a 40ft AWB.

The point that there are many, many production yachts capable of, and actually completing ocean passages safely and in ever increasing numbers. Traditional style has been found out as simply not as necessary as people thought.

Interestingly, in 2004 I delivered a 40 foot FP Lavezzi catamaran from St Lucia to Croatia. That was a bit Groundhog Day...

 

[geem]

The point that there are many, many production yachts capable of, and actually completing ocean passages safely and in ever increasing numbers. Traditional style has been found out as simply not as necessary as people thought.

Interestingly, in 2004 I delivered a 40 foot FP Lavezzi catamaran from St Lucia to Croatia. That was a bit Groundhog Day...

It depends what you mean by traditional style. I have never advocated long keel boats. A good deep draft fin and skeg hung rudder with a large rig and the abilty to sail well to windward and maintain good speed in light winds would be my preference. A sea kindly hull design and good tankage for fuel and water. A cockpit design that works well to provide shelter when the weather turns nasty but not a pokey hole when at anchor for weeks at a time. The abilty to eat every meal in the cockpit whilst at anchor in comfort with a good table. A hull design that can take plenty of stores and spares and weight without having to paint a new water line 6inches up from normal. A rig that works well down wind. Not swept back spreaders that foul on the mainsail and cause chafe. Twin head sails on furlers would be ideal. A powerful engine for when you need it. An engine space that is easily worked on without dismantling the boat. An encapsulated keel for peace of mind. Good ventilation for hot climates and ventilation that works when it rains and its 35degC. Good sea berth and good anchorage berths. A large galley that works well at sea with handholds everywhere and somewhere to brace yourself whilst cooking. Space on deck to carry a good rib rather than on davits for when ocean sailing.

 

[alant]

It depends what you mean by traditional style. I have never advocated long keel boats. A good deep draft fin and skeg hung rudder with a large rig and the abilty to sail well to windward and maintain good speed in light winds would be my preference. A sea kindly hull design and good tankage for fuel and water. A cockpit design that works well to provide shelter when the weather turns nasty but not a pokey hole when at anchor for weeks at a time. The abilty to eat every meal in the cockpit whilst at anchor in comfort with a good table. A hull design that can take plenty of stores and spares and weight without having to paint a new water line 6inches up from normal. A rig that works well down wind. Not swept back spreaders that foul on the mainsail and cause chafe. Twin head sails on furlers would be ideal. A powerful engine for when you need it. An engine space that is easily worked on without dismantling the boat. An encapsulated keel for peace of mind. Good ventilation for hot climates and ventilation that works when it rains and its 35degC. Good sea berth and good anchorage berths. A large galley that works well at sea with handholds everywhere and somewhere to brace yourself whilst cooking. Space on deck to carry a good rib rather than on davits for when ocean sailing.

Go on then, you've kept us in suspense, which boat is it?

 

[jordanbasset]

It depends what you mean by traditional style. I have never advocated long keel boats. A good deep draft fin and skeg hung rudder with a large rig and the abilty to sail well to windward and maintain good speed in light winds would be my preference. A sea kindly hull design and good tankage for fuel and water. A cockpit design that works well to provide shelter when the weather turns nasty but not a pokey hole when at anchor for weeks at a time. The abilty to eat every meal in the cockpit whilst at anchor in comfort with a good table. A hull design that can take plenty of stores and spares and weight without having to paint a new water line 6inches up from normal. A rig that works well down wind. Not swept back spreaders that foul on the mainsail and cause chafe. Twin head sails on furlers would be ideal. A powerful engine for when you need it. An engine space that is easily worked on without dismantling the boat. An encapsulated keel for peace of mind. Good ventilation for hot climates and ventilation that works when it rains and its 35degC. Good sea berth and good anchorage berths. A large galley that works well at sea with handholds everywhere and somewhere to brace yourself whilst cooking. Space on deck to carry a good rib rather than on davits for when ocean sailing.

Go on then, you've kept us in suspense, which boat is it?

I was thinking that

 

[Heckler]

The point that there are many, many production yachts capable of, and actually completing ocean passages safely and in ever increasing numbers. Traditional style has been found out as simply not as necessary as people thought.

Interestingly, in 2004 I delivered a 40 foot FP Lavezzi catamaran from St Lucia to Croatia. That was a bit Groundhog Day...

Geem loves his boat, much as I love my Bene. I must say that if I was doing this again I would be tempted by his Trintella 44. Heavy sea kindly and he used to walk away from us when we were sailing around Holyhead! However I must say that you only have to look at Delos, Amel 54 and La Vagabonde 1, Bene 43. Both gone around the world just about. No real dramas. LaVaga were rank amateurs when they started, just imagine buying it in Italy doing a bit of Med sailing then setting off crossing the Atlantic and Pacific! Delos, superb sailors, big heavy blue water boat, whatever that means but both did the same job!
Stu

 

[Neil_Y]

Many types or almost any type is suitable, they may also want to consider a boat which has done a bit of ocean cruising then it will be equiped and ready to go and often the ones I've seen are better maintained.

My best boat after sailing oceans and many offshore miles in a wide variety of boats ended up being a Bavaria 390, a really great boat especially when it got rough like in a proper November Biscay storm.

Hope they have a good trip, but I guess they will go through the canal? rather than round the cape?

 

[Neil_Y]

Seeing as you still need to carry back up water in case your water maker fails and ideally have it in a couple of tanks in case one gets contaminated I would always carry enough bottled water for the expected trip x 1.5 so actual tankage and water maker are not that relevant on passage. More use if you're pottering in the islands and want more showers as you're swimming more and you don't want to keep going to harbours to fill up.

 

[geem]

Seeing as you still need to carry back up water in case your water maker fails and ideally have it in a couple of tanks in case one gets contaminated I would always carry enough bottled water for the expected trip x 1.5 so actual tankage and water maker are not that relevant on passage. More use if you're pottering in the islands and want more showers as you're swimming more and you don't want to keep going to harbours to fill up.

I beg to differ. If you can carry a reasonble emergency supply of water in cans then with a watermaker you make water regularly on passage. A big watermaker can easily make over 100 litres in an hour. Keep the tanks full. If the watermaker fails you have a full tank plus an emergency store of canned water. We do this and with an 800 litre tank have an abundant supply of water. Showers every day we carry enough spares to fix almost everything on the watermaker and it can either run from the generator or from the inverter with the engine running