UK Sailors And Expats In The EU - Run Up To Friday 29th March 2019 & Beyond?

[Graham376]

What will the UK's attitude be (especially HMRC and NHS) to British Nationals who acquire a foreign RP?[/QUOTE]

They won't know unless you tell them. Having the right of residence elsewhere doesn't mean you use it. By the way, haven't received the PM you mentioned a few posts ago. G.

 

[nortada]

What will the UK's attitude be (especially HMRC and NHS) to British Nationals who acquire a foreign RP?

They won't know unless you tell them. Having the right of residence elsewhere doesn't mean you use it. By the way, haven't received the PM you mentioned a few posts ago. G.[/QUOTE]

Take your point but I have been told that if you acquire Portuguese Residencia, Portugal will advise the UK - no evidence so just hope you are right.

Ref the PM, think it may have been over taken by events but I will dig it out and resend.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I would suggest before anyone start knocking on the tax man door to think very carefully .
If your getting some kind of income as in rental, to pop your head above the radar and admitting your out of the country for more the 183 days could if they want to lose your PTA which mean you end up paying tax on the full amount of income .

 

[nortada]

I would suggest before anyone start knocking on the tax man door to think very carefully .
If your getting some kind of income as in rental, to pop your head above the radar and admitting your out of the country for more the 183 days could if they want to lose your PTA which mean you end up paying tax on the full amount of income .

PTA?

Clearly, there are individual considerations but why would you admit you are out of the country for more than 183 days? The 183 days is an EU construct so wouldn’t apply post Brexit.

That said, I seem to recall there is a requirement for recipients of UK states pension to advise the UK if they are out of the UK for more than 90 days.

We regularly visit the UK so no problem.

 

[Garold]

PTA?

Clearly, there are individual considerations but why would you admit you are out of the country for more than 183 days? The 183 days is an EU construct so wouldn’t apply post Brexit.

That said, I seem to recall there is a requirement for recipients of UK states pension to advise the UK if they are out of the UK for more than 90 days.

We regularly visit the UK so no problem.

I think that Vic may be referring to PPR relief (ie relief from CGT on you principal private residence).

Garold

 

[sailaboutvic]

I think that Vic may be referring to PPR relief (ie relief from CGT on you principal private residence).

Garold

Personally tax allowance , a case could be made that being out of the UK longer then 183 means you no longer entitled to the PTA which would mean you be paying tax on your full income be it rental, bonds or what every it may be .but yes Garold , that too .

 

[Garold]

Personally tax allowance , a case could be made that being out of the UK longer then 183 means you no longer entitled to the PTA which would mean you be paying tax on your full income be it rental, bonds or what every it may be .but yes Garold , that too .

Oops. Sorry. Didn’t know about that one.

Garold

 

[nortada]

Personally tax allowance , a case could be made that being out of the UK longer then 183 means you no longer entitled to the PTA which would mean you be paying tax on your full income be it rental, bonds or what every it may be .but yes Garold , that too .

As a retired member of the armed forces, my pension is taxed at source ie in the UK, even if I elect to leave the UK I will still get the UK personal tax relief on approximately £11,000 of this pension.

The irony, is that if I have Portuguese Residencia and elect to be taxed in Portugal, I would get about €6,000 tax relief on my State Pension (In effect my total UK pension would be paid free of any tax). Total annual combined tax relief about £15,000 per annum - a well known ruse.

Same applies to CGT, if the property is in the UK and your are a UK tax payer you will still enjoy any CGT benifits available.

Sailfree may be able to add more detail.

 

[nortada]

Long Stay (D) Visas

Might be of interest.


COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION EN Brussels, 22 March 2010 7803/10 (Presse 71)

Free movement of third country nationals with a long stay visa within the Schengen area The Council adopted a regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council amending the convention implementing the Schengen agreement and regulation (EC No 562/2006) as regards movement of persons with long-stay visas (7392/10). Long-stay visas, or so-called "D" visas, are visas issued to third country nationals for periods of stay longer than three months. The new provisions concern mainly three aspects: free movement, maximum validity of long-stay visas, and security aspects.

Concerning free movement, third country nationals with a long-stay visa are put on the same footing as third country nationals holding valid residence permits: They will be able to move freely for up to three months in any six-month period within the territories of the other Schengen states. This is important for two reasons: First, for the general purpose of free travel within the Schengen area and second, for the specific purpose of transit through another Schengen state when returning from the country that issues the visa.

Under the previous rules, a third-country national holding a national long-stay visa for stays exceeding three months was allowed to stay only in the territory of the Schengen state which issued the visa and to transit through other member states only in order to reach the country which issued the visa. Such a person was not allowed to travel to the other Schengen states during his stay (for different legitimate purposes such as business, conferences, visits etc.) nor to transit through the other states when returning to their country of origin which, in some cases, posed problems.

The new rules also stipulates that long-term visas shall have a period of validity of no more than one year. If a member state allows an alien to stay for more than one year, the long stay visa shall be replaced before the expiry of its period of validity by a residence permit. In other words, Schengen states will in these cases be obliged to replace the long-stay visa with a residence permit.

As far as security aspects of the Schengen area are concerned, the new provisions oblige member states considering the issuance of a long-stay visa to a third-country national to consult the Schengen Information System (SIS) in the same way as they need to do when considering the issuance of a residence permit. In case the third-country national concerned is a person for whom an alert has been issued for the purpose of refusing entry, the member state shall first consult that member state which issued the alert and shall take account of its interests. In such cases the residence permit shall be issued only for substantive reasons, notably on humanitarian grounds or by reason of international commitments. Similarly, in case an alert for the purpose of refusing entry has been issued for a third-country national who already holds a long-stay visa issued by another State, the member state issuing the alert shall consult the other member state which issued the residence permit in order to determine whether there are sufficient reasons for withdrawing the long-stay visa. With these provisions, the free circulation of the holders of a long-stay visa will not constitute any additional security risk compared to the holders of Schengen residence permits and short-stay visas.

The points I take from this are;

The option of long term visas will not be available until The UK becomes a Third Nation ie post Brexit.

You may be able to convert a Long Term Visa in to a Residence's Permit without having a permanent residence on the host country.

Rather than the EU, it is the host country that issues the long term visa. In my case Portugal so the attitude of the host nation will be all important.

Thoughts?

 

[nortada]

Visas & Residency In Portugal

https://www.expatica.com/pt/visas-a...guese-visas-and-residency-permits_105233.html

Bit of light reading for those who intend to sail in Portuguese Waters post Brexit.

Clearly, rather than buy, renting property ashore could provide a suitable address. Would using a friend’s address ashore suffice?

Now need to establish, if a long-term (6 months plus?) berthing contract would also statisfy the requirement for an address for residency?

Knowing Portugal, I suspect that local officials will decide on residence requirements and rulings will vary widely from place to place. Possibly locations with big marinas and a large Brit liveaboard community, with all of the money that brings to local businesses, may be more relaxed over the accomodation address.

Possibly Coimbra would not be the best place to open negotiations.:encouragement:

With exception to the Schengen element, rather than the EU, this whole issue of visas/residencia is nationally based so could all be started post Brexit so no rush to meet the 29th Mar 2019.

Expatica provides a similar brief for those looking to settle in Spain at: https://www.expatica.com/new/es/moving/visas/visas-and-immigration-102354/.

Had a quick look and it appears that, unlike Portugal where you can have dual nationality, if you want Spanish Residencia you will have to renounce your British Nationality and exchange your UK Passport for a Spanish one. A big step!

As a footnote; there should be similar documentation available for other EU states?

 

[RAI]

Interesting that a D type visa or residence permit produces a call to the SIS database. Which in turn can be accessed by the home state. So hiding one's overseas residence will be harder.

 

[nortada]

Interesting that a D type visa or residence permit produces a call to the SIS database. Which in turn can be accessed by the home state. So hiding one's overseas residence will be harder.

Agree, If they bother to look but I think the days of hiding one’s overseas residences have long gone.

On balance, I suspect the home state will only look if they have reason to do so.

 

[Bitterend]

I bought my boat in Palma and insured with Pantaenius, forms were in English and certificate of insurance arrived from their Germany office... Fast forward and I took the boat to England for major renovations and out of the water so I phoned Pantaenius to inform them of this change and lo and behold my next ins cert and subsequent certs were all issued from the UK office. I hope they are still as flexible and customer focused.

 

[jordanbasset]

Interesting that a D type visa or residence permit produces a call to the SIS database. Which in turn can be accessed by the home state. So hiding one's overseas residence will be harder.

Agree, the SIS is designed to ensure all movements of people going in or out of the Schengen area is tracked, it also makes it much easier, by having one central database, for them to enforce the 90 days in 180 days Schengen visa, including for those who have residence

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: Open Letter To The Moderators - Please Make This Thread A Sticky.

This website might be of interest....

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/advice-for-british-nationals-travelling-and-living-in-europe

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Open Letter To The Moderators - Please Make This Thread A Sticky.

Its seems to solve problem for them who living in one said country , but doesn't help us who are moving around .

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: Open Letter To The Moderators - Please Make This Thread A Sticky.

Its seems to solve problem for them who living in one said country , but doesn't help us who are moving around .

I realised that but still thought it worth posting. Sadly I think cruising sailors are gong to be a grey area for some time after Brexit even if there is a deal. Perhaps it might be wise to pick a country and only cruise there for a year or two after Brexit to give the dust time to settle?

 

[RAI]

Re: Open Letter To The Moderators - Please Make This Thread A Sticky.

I realised that but still thought it worth posting. Sadly I think cruising sailors are gong to be a grey area for some time after Brexit even if there is a deal. Perhaps it might be wise to pick a country and only cruise there for a year or two after Brexit to give the dust time to settle?

It looks like the worst case is that live-aboard cruising sailors will be treated by EU countries the same as US citizens and Australians, etc., are treated today. It would be good to get some direct feedback from them on the matter.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Open Letter To The Moderators - Please Make This Thread A Sticky.

I realised that but still thought it worth posting. Sadly I think cruising sailors are gong to be a grey area for some time after Brexit even if there is a deal. Perhaps it might be wise to pick a country and only cruise there for a year or two after Brexit to give the dust time to settle?

Wasn't haveing a go Tony , just saying , it won't help us who are cruisers .

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: Open Letter To The Moderators - Please Make This Thread A Sticky.

I realised that but still thought it worth posting. Sadly I think cruising sailors are gong to be a grey area for some time after Brexit even if there is a deal. Perhaps it might be wise to pick a country and only cruise there for a year or two after Brexit to give the dust time to settle?

The issue is I think you will still need a settled address to apply for residency i that country. Not sure even a 12 month marina berth may be enough, but I am pretty sure someone spending a few days here and there at anchor in different locations of the same country will not meet the residence criteria their systems want