Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
Hmm, what would be the reaction if you shone one right back?
Uk borders agency - is this a record?
- Thread starter Skents
- Start date
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
and I tryed telephone them . first 2 numbers i used where answering machine saying no one in the office , next number " we are open form 9am till 12 am" next one was the press offices " sorry we under staff and can't answer your question " at that point i give up
lenseman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2006
- Messages
- 7,077
- Location
- South East Coast - United Kingdom
Hello Andy
Just been reading through some brochures I picked up on the UKBA stand at SIBS this year.
One was called "e-BORDERS LEISURE CRAFT MAKING INTERNATIONAL JOURNEYS - YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED."
On the 'back page', which happens to be paragraph 9, it states:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxCAN I SEE THE DATA YOU HOLD ON ME?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxTravellers will have the right to make subject access
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxrequests (SAR) under the Data Protection Act to
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxascertain what personal data we possess and process.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxWhere data is incorrect, the individual has the right
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxto that data being corrected or removed from
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxthe system. Individuals also have the right to make
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxenquiries about e-Borders system under the Freedom
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxof Information Act.
Of course, your wife and son might have to make separate requests to see if the UKBA hold information on either of them and the UKBA, as you know, have to reply within 20 working days!
It's worth a try. So now you know. They have to give you TWO specific replies for each individual as you need to enquire under what they call SAR and also under FoIA. Let us all know how you get on?
st599
Well-Known Member
Send it as an FOI request, they then have 20 working days to answer.
Bilgediver
Well-Known Member
They were in Port Edgar Marina recently and it took ages to get them out of commando mode and into conversation mode. However eventually had a long civilised conversation on the pontoons and they left looking a bit less like hooligans.
They certainly give the appearance of Special forces or commandos in their latest garb unlike the old uniforms of Customs and Excise.
DavenHelen
Well-Known Member
DavenHelen
Well-Known Member
Measurements
It seems a common fault with government that they believe that targets and measurement in themselves will make things better. The problem is in this case that they have decided that the more boardings that happen the more smugglers will be caught and are probably measuring both the boardings and the apprehensions. What this leads to is a "lets get the boardings done, then we can go and catch the smugglers" attitude. If the target was purely on convictions, then the UKBA would be more focussed on stopping the right boats.
It seems a common fault with government that they believe that targets and measurement in themselves will make things better. The problem is in this case that they have decided that the more boardings that happen the more smugglers will be caught and are probably measuring both the boardings and the apprehensions. What this leads to is a "lets get the boardings done, then we can go and catch the smugglers" attitude. If the target was purely on convictions, then the UKBA would be more focussed on stopping the right boats.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
You complain to the Information Commissioner
T
timbartlett
Guest
And after you have jumped through all the Information Commissioner's hoops, his staff will "investigate" and will almost certainly decide that UKBA have a perfectly good reason not to answer your request. If you are really lucky, your complaint might be one of the tiny quota that are allocated to being found in favour of the complainant (to make it look as though the FOI actually achieves something) If so, they will write a report about it.
No-one will be punished, and you still won't get your information.
Boreades
Well-Known Member
I've got a feeling that was on both of my last insurance policy and the registration doc. - might be wrong though.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
And 40 days to answer a SAR which they can also charge you £10 for.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
And how many complaints have you made to the ICO to enable you to support that opinion?
T
timbartlett
Guest
And how many have you made to refute it?
As it happens, I have made a number of FOI requests, and one complaint to the IC (about the MAIB).
But neither you nor I need to go through that process to know that:-
* in its entire history, the ICO has received over 11500 complaints, but has issued decisions in only 1225 cases
* in 2008-09, it "closed" 3019 cases, of which only 105 were upheld
* 67% complaints referred onwards to the Information Tribunal were from complainants, and only 33% from government departments.
In other words, the ICO's own data shows that:-
* it has only issued decisions in 10% of the cases referred to it,
* only 3.4% of complaints are upheld
* government departments are twice as happy with the performance of the ICO as the complainants..
But even the ICO is doing well compared with the Parliamentary Ombudsman (see below)
Last edited:
T
timbartlett
Guest
Every Complaint Matters
Here's an FOI request that I made to the Parliamentary Ombudsman (the one that handles complaints against the civil service)
* 97.5% of cases referred to the PHSO are never investigated
* only 17% of PHSO staff are employed in the department that actually investigates complaints, but this includes managers and support staff
* the PHSO employs two and a half times as many staff to come up with reasons not to investigate complaints as it does to actually investigate them
Here's an FOI request that I made to the Parliamentary Ombudsman (the one that handles complaints against the civil service)
And here's the reply:
In other words:
* 97.5% of cases referred to the PHSO are never investigated
* only 17% of PHSO staff are employed in the department that actually investigates complaints, but this includes managers and support staff
* the PHSO employs two and a half times as many staff to come up with reasons not to investigate complaints as it does to actually investigate them
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
Maybe they'd be able to get on with the job instead of chasing number.
performance indicators have had a detrimental effect on all the public services, I can't see the UKBA being an exception. Still, I'm sure the statistics will be shown to 'prove' otherwise.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
So that is a grand total of one then. Oh, and some statistics. That's helpful in evaluating your opinion. Thanks.
Searush
Well-Known Member
EastCoastChris
Well-Known Member
So the majority of staff are dealing with enquiries, such as FOI requests, and consequently can't work on investigating complaints?
nicho
RIP
We had a visit in the marina this year - all very pleasant, introduced themselves and explained their role in life, and what they were trying to achieve. Seven times in short succession is somewhat over the top though. They do it seems have pretty unlimited powers, so I guess it's best to just grin and bear it.
We were once going into Lymington at the statutory 6 knots, when one of their RIBs came past at a pretty fast rate - the wash was really bad, but I thought better of shouting at them........!!!
T
timbartlett
Guest
Yes, I am one of less than 0.02% of the UK population that has any first hand experience of dealing with the IC.
But rather than looking at a small and possibly unrepresentative sample of my own experience, I used the IC's own data to look at it's entire history.
What is wrong with that?
Or are statistics only valid, in your opinion, when they are used by one of your fellow civil servants??
And if so, does it change matters if I tell you that the source of those statistics on which you have poured such scorn was the Information Commissioner's Annual Report?
Last edited:
