UK’s biggest warship suffers propeller shaft damage off south coast after setting sail for US

[Kukri]

After her sea trials...the QE sailed around the world. All will be fixed...it always is

Sailed around the world once, (?) in five years. These things should not need fixing. ?

 

[Frogmogman]

On such complex projects there will always be teething problems; the French Navy had all sorts of problems with the Charles de Gaulle at the outset, particularly the screws which broke up and had to be replaced with the old ones off the Clemenceau. Many people in France put this down to bad luck caused by the name change (at the outset she was to have been the Richelieu, but Chirac had the name changed to CDG).

FWIW, she cost over €3 billion back in the 1990s. The reported cost of the QE and the POW is £3 billion each, so I guess that’s not too bad (though the Charles de Gaulle is Nuclear).

 

[Kukri]

The French can afford to send their nuclear CdG to sea. One of the reasons why our Navy (submarines excepted) is almost always in port is that we can’t afford the fuel for them,

 

[SaltIre]

On such complex projects there will always be teething problems; the French Navy had all sorts of problems with the Charles de Gaulle at the outset, particularly the screws which broke up and had to be replaced with the old ones off the Clemenceau. Many people in France put this down to bad luck caused by the name change (at the outset she was to have been the Richelieu, but Chirac had the name changed to CDG).

FWIW, she cost over €3 billion back in the 1990s. The reported cost of the QE and the POW is £3 million each, so I guess that’s not too bad (though the Charles de Gaulle is Nuclear).

£3million per ship seems incredibly small. Are you sure? Do you mean billion?

 

[SaltIre]

The French can afford to send their nuclear CdG to sea. One of the reasons why our Navy (submarines excepted) is almost always in port is that we can’t afford the fuel for them,

I fondly remember the delight in our MEO's eyes when he was allowed to flash up the Olympus turbines rather than stooging around at 10 knots on the Tynes! The chap on the left:

 

[Bouba]

The French can afford to send their nuclear CdG to sea. One of the reasons why our Navy (submarines excepted) is almost always in port is that we can’t afford the fuel for them,

One of the problems of nuclear power in ships is refueling....although it might only be once in the ship’s lifetime...it can take a year. To be effective you need a minimum of two carriers so at least one is close to being available at any time. The French only have the one carrier...and when she is replaced by PANG (Porte-avions de nouvelle génération)...a nuclear powered super carrier..it will still only have the one.

 

[chrisclin]

The gantry crane used to build the two carriers was indeed made in China by ZPMC and dismantled and taken back to China when they were finished. We don’t know how to make them, here.

I happened to drive past Rosyth this very evening and noticed the gantry crane is still there - but it's now got 'Babcock' written on it

 

[Rum_Pirate]

...Almost every ship in the world has a propeller shaft or sometimes two.
...

Slight digression:
One of Wilbur Smiths books (IIRC Hungry as the Sea) a large tanker has a bearing problem and the spare bearing's diameter for the shaft that was aboard was made to imperial dimensions and the shaft to metric dimensions, but one or the other was rounded of and the upshot was that the replacement bearing was as useless as if it have been 6" smaller or even 150mm larger.

Similar problem due to translation of measurement:
When NASA Lost a Spacecraft Due to a Metric Math Mistake
In September of 1999, after almost 10 months of travel to Mars, the Mars Climate Orbiter burned and broke into pieces.
How NASA Lost a Spacecraft From a Metric Math Mistake | SimScale

 

[penfold]

Aircraft carrier can be disabled by a fishing line or rope. And you don't consider that to be poor design?

It's not disabled; they aren't using one shaft as it's leaking. Both will work if needed. Every propellor driven ship in the world could have their stern seal compromised by mechanical damage from grit, fishing line, rope etc. It's a mundane fact of marine engineering.

Which pearl of wisdom - "poor design" or the shaft leak?
HMS Queen Elizabeth: Water leak on aircraft carrier 'neck-high'

That was a leaking firemain; poor QC maybe, nothing to do with design.

 

[Bouba]

It's not disabled; they aren't using one shaft as it's leaking. Both will work if needed. Every propellor driven ship in the world could have their stern seal compromised by mechanical damage from grit, fishing line, rope etc. It's a mundane fact of marine engineering.

Is that the definitive problem...a shaft seal?

 

[Rum_Pirate]

One of the problems of nuclear power in ships is refueling....although it might only be once in the ship’s lifetime...it can take a year. To be effective you need a minimum of two carriers so at least one is close to being available at any time. The French only have the one carrier...and when she is replaced by PANG (Porte-avions de nouvelle génération)...a nuclear powered super carrier..it will still only have the one.

Reminded me of this:

"There was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American.
During a break, one of the French engineers came back into the room saying, "Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims.
What does he intend to do, bomb them?"

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly:
"Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck.
We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?"

You could have heard a pin drop."

Seems according to Bouba - Apparently only one.

 

[penfold]

Is that the definitive problem...a shaft seal?

MoD aren't saying.

 

[38mess]

Probably caused by a lovesick stoker not wanting to leave his girlfriend.

 

[Kukri]

I happened to drive past Rosyth this very evening and noticed the gantry crane is still there - but it's now got 'Babcock' written on it

My mistake, I hadn’t spotted that the decision to sell the crane back to China had been reversed. Nice one, Babcocks.

I think that might be a (thing that we don’t mention here) Benefit - for Babcocks, as the EU Shipbuilding Regulations required the crane to be removed. I wish them joy of it.

Goliath (Rosyth) - Wikipedia

 

[Bajansailor]

One of Wilbur Smiths books (IIRC Hungry as the Sea) a large tanker has a bearing problem and the spare bearing's diameter for the shaft that was aboard was made to imperial dimensions and the shaft to metric dimensions, but one or the other was rounded of and the upshot was that the replacement bearing was as useless as if it have been 6" smaller or even 150mm larger.

I remember reading that book - a good tale, but some facts are a bit off.
They mention how the tug has 2 x 22,000 hp Mirlees engines in her - if she actually had this much power, I don't think they would have much room for anything else, as the whole vessel would then be full of engine room and fuel tanks.....

 

[Frogmogman]

£3million per ship seems incredibly small. Are you sure? Do you mean billion?

Of course, a typo. Now corrected, thank you.

 

[Kukri]

I remember reading that book - a good tale, but some facts are a bit off.
They mention how the tug has 2 x 22,000 hp Mirlees engines in her - if she actually had this much power, I don't think they would have much room for anything else, as the whole vessel would then be full of engine room and fuel tanks.....

The “S.A. Wolraad Woltemaade”, the “S.A. John Ross”, both built for Safmarine, 22,000 ihp from memory, Smit’s “Smit London” and “Smit Rotterdam” and Bugsier’s “Arctic” and “Oceanic” all 20,000 ihp, all built in the Seventies with an eye on the big platform tow outs, were as big as salvage tugs got. iirc, because the gear was at the limit of what could be handled by humans.

 

[Frogmogman]

Slightly ironic that the previous HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse were lost off Malaya in Dec 1941 for lack of air cover.

HMS Indomitable, the aircraft carrier assigned to group G had had to dry dock after running aground in Jamaica…..

 

[Frogmogman]

Reminded me of this:

"There was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American.
During a break, one of the French engineers came back into the room saying, "Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims.
What does he intend to do, bomb them?"

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly:
"Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck.
We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?"

You could have heard a pin drop."

Seems according to Bouba - Apparently only one.

Of course, an aircraft carrier is the ideal platform for relief operations, for all of the reasons listed above.

I had heard a variation of this story when Barack Obama sent the supercarrier USS Carl Vinson and the helicopter carrier USS Bataan and 3 large dock landing ships (and Bill Clinton) to spearhead relief operations following the earthquake in Haiti in 2010.

Nicolas Sarkozy was reported to be furious, accusing the US of imperialism (though goodness knows, if any country is entitled to complain of what they suffered at the hands of their imperial masters, it is Haiti, whose treatment by France was truly appalling).

No doubt Sarko’s anger was prompted by what he saw as Anglo Saxon meddling in an area of French influence…..

 

[Neeves]

Understanding in Oz, which might be wrong, is that Stg3 billion of investment is currently stationary and reliant on an .......

....... anchor

for security.

Now I'm guessing - probably a large AC14.

Sorry, could not resist it.

Jonathan