Twin screw boat handling tips

[omega2]

Murv take no notice of the welsh wizard,he is always looking for fight!! If he were here in Essex he would appreciate a MARINA, by not having to skull out in a pram dingy in the dead of winter, summers ok for the gin palace drivers.

 

[kashurst]

Hi Murv
I tried self teaching myself twin screw boat handling years ago - then I did a Day Skipper course. Transformation, I would have saved a fortune in gel coat filler if I had done the boat handling/day skipper course. Great though the advice on here is, there are so many techniques and skills that a good training course is well worth the money. Might be worth doing it on your own boat too. I distinctly remember being taught how to come alongside in a tidal flow with only one engine and no bow thruster - that has been an invaluable technique I have had to use a few times over the years.
Just to put it in perspective, get it seriously wrong one day and bash someone elses boat, and your insurance excess will probably be more than a training course.

 

[Murv]

Murv take no notice of the welsh wizard,he is always looking for fight!! If he were here in Essex he would appreciate a MARINA, by not having to skull out in a pram dingy in the dead of winter, summers ok for the gin palace drivers.

I'll find out at the end of the Month what it's like manoeuvring in a tide free marina, I'm not particularly looking forward to it either to be honest! (although I will enjoy the challenge)

Hi Murv
I tried self teaching myself twin screw boat handling years ago - then I did a Day Skipper course. Transformation, I would have saved a fortune in gel coat filler if I had done the boat handling/day skipper course. Great though the advice on here is, there are so many techniques and skills that a good training course is well worth the money. Might be worth doing it on your own boat too. I distinctly remember being taught how to come alongside in a tidal flow with only one engine and no bow thruster - that has been an invaluable technique I have had to use a few times over the years.
Just to put it in perspective, get it seriously wrong one day and bash someone elses boat, and your insurance excess will probably be more than a training course.

Thanks for that, I didn't realise that day skipper covered boat handling.
It is a course that I want to do, I'm keeping my eyes open for something close by that's convenient.
I've self taught so far with the theory side, as well as being lucky enough to benefit from the knowledge of the members at the cruising club.
I also did 4 hours boat handling training with an instructor when I got my first boat (single on an outdrive) and then another two hours close-quarter handling in the new one.
But, sods law, the conditions were absolutely perfect with barely a breath of wind and a fast ebbing tide so didn't get chance to practise manoeuvring in tricky conditions.

I totally agree with your points, the small amount of money I spent on training is still the best investment I've ever made by quite some margin.
I will look a bit harder for a suitable course, I think I've probably bypassed the PB1 & 2 by now, but day skipper is one that I'd like to have, it will also (I believe) enable me to get my ICC for when we get a little more adventurous next Year

 

[Jonmendez]

Some excellent advice on here, but the wheel is there for a reason, its works and adds a great deal of finesse to the whole process. get well practised with just the engines, then try it and see what it does on your boat. Many people advocate don't use it and its personal choice but on most boats it adds extra control, especially if its windy.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Some excellent advice on here, but the wheel is there for a reason, its works and adds a great deal of finesse to the whole process. get well practised with just the engines, then try it and see what it does on your boat. Many people advocate don't use it and its personal choice but on most boats it adds extra control, especially if its windy.

Many would argue that the wheel's purpose is to steer at high speeds when the small rudders become more effective. The effect of the wheel is often so trivial at slow speeds it becomes a distraction.

I agree it can help sometimes, but advocating it's use to a learner might not be helpful.

 

[Murv]

My instructor described the rudders as being the icing on the cake, he said they can, and do, make a difference but a subtle one and advised me to have a play around once I was happy with using the gears. Which is pretty much what you're both advocating!
All I've really done so far with the rudders is use them to make a faster turn on opposite throttles, which I imagine might be useful in wind, but I'll get proficient with just the gears for a while before going any further with that

 

[oldgit]

The main difference between beginners and old hands cocking it up is the old hands dont care anymore and know there will be a next time and definately one after that as well.
Bit like flying,if you walk away, its good landing, if they can use the aeroplane again, its brilliant one.
Ps. Old hands will confirm however, that shouting at the "crew" does not improve matters other than prolong the agony.

 

[Murv]

The main difference between beginners and old hands cocking it up is the old hands dont care anymore and know there will be a next time and definately one after that as well.
Bit like flying,if you walk away, its good landing, if they can use the aeroplane again, its brilliant one.
Ps. Old hands will confirm however, that shouting at the "crew" does not improve matters .

 

[oldgit]

Crew tend to remember stuff and recall the event(s) at uphelpful moments.

 

[Murv]

Crew tend to remember stuff and recall the event(s) at uphelpful moments.

There are strict disciplinary procedures on board, plus a signed statement of confidentiality that all crew members need to complete before being accepted which seems to have reduced that risk (I really hope she doesn't read this!)

It's more the merciless abuse from club members I'm not looking forward to when it all goes very wrong in front of the (inevitable) vast crowd

 

[BruceK]

Murv take no notice of the welsh wizard,he is always looking for fight!! If he were here in Essex he would appreciate a MARINA, by not having to skull out in a pram dingy in the dead of winter, summers ok for the gin palace drivers.

Skull out in a dingy? Never! SWMBO wouldn't have it. Chauffeured Club launch all the way :encouragement:

 

[BruceK]

Some excellent advice on here, but the wheel is there for a reason, its works and adds a great deal of finesse to the whole process. get well practised with just the engines, then try it and see what it does on your boat. Many people advocate don't use it and its personal choice but on most boats it adds extra control, especially if its windy.

Might be worth noting that rudders will stall at greater than 14% angle of attack just like an aircraft wing so small steady increments as she gains speed to tighten the turn.

 

[benjenbav]

There are strict disciplinary procedures on board, plus a signed statement of confidentiality that all crew members need to complete before being accepted which seems to have reduced that risk (I really hope she doesn't read this!)

It's more the merciless abuse from club members I'm not looking forward to when it all goes very wrong in front of the (inevitable) vast crowd

Murv, some great stuff above. Just one thought: your pivot point will be behind where you stand to con the craft, so any move ahead from a more or less stationary position is going to be more about what the arse-end is doing than where you might like the pointy end to go. That is to say, a swift and unwise turn ahead to starboard when you're moored port-side to a wall can mean gelcoat work to the port quarter. I find it helps to remember that.

And btw, when Jon Mendez talks about rudders, it's worth listening: I'd back him to park the tub on the top deck of the multi-storey next to the marina and get it off again without a scratch.

 

[Murv]

Murv, some great stuff above. Just one thought: your pivot point will be behind where you stand to con the craft, so any move ahead from a more or less stationary position is going to be more about what the arse-end is doing than where you might like the pointy end to go. That is to say, a swift and unwise turn ahead to starboard when you're moored port-side to a wall can mean gelcoat work to the port quarter. I find it helps to remember that.

And btw, when Jon Mendez talks about rudders, it's worth listening: I'd back him to park the tub on the top deck of the multi-storey next to the marina and get it off again without a scratch.

Thanks for the tips, I'll bear that in mind
At the moment, because the boat is so much bigger than the old one, I'm very aware of where the corners are all the time. I imagine I'll come unstuck when I get a bit more complacent with it, if I let that happen, anyway!

I do totally take the point about rudders, I just want to get the basics sorted first before trying to apply too much finesse for now.

I was going to say that it's more just about getting in and out without damage at the moment, but in all honesty, I'm doing that now anyway despite trying a couple of relatively tricky maneuvers and experiencing some slightly ropy conditions.
I suppose, really, I do want to be as good at close quarter maneuvering as I possibly can be although I fully accept I'm going to need a few more Years of practice under my belt first

 

[BruceK]

Long before you master it you master your nerves. When I started out I would have a wonderful weekend at sea on the hook and get back churning with adrenalin and nerves, dreading spectators, yelling at crew and right miserable over the whole affair. I haven't really got much better but without the nerves when it goes wrong it's a muttered oh beggar under the breath and just get on with it. And lots of fenders. Cant have too many fenders
For me a big turning point was letting a much more experienced boater "show me" how it's done and so completely cock it up I thought, actually I'm not so bloody awful after all.

 

[Murv]

Long before you master it you master your nerves. When I started out I would have a wonderful weekend at sea on the hook and get back churning with adrenalin and nerves, dreading spectators, yelling at crew and right miserable over the whole affair. I haven't really got much better but without the nerves when it goes wrong it's a muttered oh beggar under the breath and just get on with it. And lots of fenders. Cant have too many fenders
For me a big turning point was letting a much more experienced boater "show me" how it's done and so completely cock it up I thought, actually I'm not so bloody awful after all.

I think that's absolutely right! A couple of weekends ago I bought the boat down from the moorings to the club to drop off some chain.
No room at my preferred stop on the fuel pontoon (it protrudes into the river so less boats to hit) so was told to raft alongside a club members boat.
It all went extremely smoothly, no fuss, no dramas, but when relaxing outside the clubhouse with a drink I noticed my hands were shaking slightly! Not so much from the nerves, but more (I think) from the intense concentration needed when coming alongside someone's pride and joy.
Even though there were no issues, I think it's that point of no return that gets me... when 10 tons of boat with a bulging-eyed beginner perched at the controls is too close to completing the maneuver to abort it. It's at that moment when something in my head seems fairly convinced that I'm going to suddenly pirouette into a fireball
I'll be glad when this stage is over!!

 

[oldgit]

There are strict disciplinary procedures on board, plus a signed statement of confidentiality

Nothing that glass of Pino will not instantly solve.

 

[gordmac]

When I first got my twin shaft boat I went with the leave the steering alone advice, since learning to ignore that I have found the boat much easier to manoeuvre!

 

[mjkinch1]

I posted this same question many years ago, and got some really good replies. There was one thing that worked for me under times of duress, that was a small laminated sheet with some very easy to see pictures that reminded me of which combination of controls produced which response, which I would pull out and leave by the throttles.

No matter how prepared I was, sometimes it all went wrong, and a quick look reminded me of the best throttle positions to spin left and right, reverse left and right, using one or both throttles. That worked for me anyway.

Thanks
martyn