neale
Well-Known Member
I have towed with both auto and manual rangerovers and would say thay are both excellent.
LWB shogun I think is 3.3 ton. At least it used to be.
LWB shogun I think is 3.3 ton. At least it used to be.
trailering
- Thread starter NickLovell
- Start date
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
cayenne, touareg etc etc
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
In extreme cases, I've accelerated to get back under control, which is ok if there is a hill in front to slow you down again.
[/ QUOTE ] Please don't fall for the old wive's tale that you can accelerate out of a snaking trailer scenario. I've spun a car and four-wheeled car trailer, with car on it trying that. Slightly worrying.
In extreme cases, I've accelerated to get back under control, which is ok if there is a hill in front to slow you down again.
[/ QUOTE ] Please don't fall for the old wive's tale that you can accelerate out of a snaking trailer scenario. I've spun a car and four-wheeled car trailer, with car on it trying that. Slightly worrying.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
RM trailers say this
5. The most common problem with towing is the trailer snaking. This is caused by insufficient noseweight, or running with a 4-wheel trailer nose down, causing the trailer to pivot around the front axle, or travelling too fast. If snaking occurs stay calm and hold steering wheel firmly and gently slow down. Do not apply brakes or accelerate, as this will make matters worse.
http://www.rmtrailers.co.uk/Manual.pdf#search="snaking%20trailer"
5. The most common problem with towing is the trailer snaking. This is caused by insufficient noseweight, or running with a 4-wheel trailer nose down, causing the trailer to pivot around the front axle, or travelling too fast. If snaking occurs stay calm and hold steering wheel firmly and gently slow down. Do not apply brakes or accelerate, as this will make matters worse.
http://www.rmtrailers.co.uk/Manual.pdf#search="snaking%20trailer"
oldharry
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Please don't fall for the old wive's tale that you can accelerate out of a snaking trailer scenario. I've spun a car and four-wheeled car trailer, with car on it trying that. Slightly worrying.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lake District hills are REAL ones though Lake Sailor /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
The rest of us who live at less than 60 degrees incline have found that if you respond quickly enough when a snake starts, a short burst on the accelerator can actually stabilise things enough to then be able to shed excess speed safely. OTOH if it starts because you are going downhill too fast in the first place then there is not a lot you can do. I once saw a caravan outfit losing it on a steep hill: the whole outfit jacknifed and ended up leaping over a hedge landing on its wheels in a neighbouring field more or less intact. Sadly that was not true of the occupants who survived, but only just. He too appeared to have tried to accelerate out of it on a hill that was getting rapidly steeper as he progressed. Having come into the hill too fast to start with, it seemed to me there was nothing he could have done to save the situation.
Please don't fall for the old wive's tale that you can accelerate out of a snaking trailer scenario. I've spun a car and four-wheeled car trailer, with car on it trying that. Slightly worrying.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lake District hills are REAL ones though Lake Sailor /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
The rest of us who live at less than 60 degrees incline have found that if you respond quickly enough when a snake starts, a short burst on the accelerator can actually stabilise things enough to then be able to shed excess speed safely. OTOH if it starts because you are going downhill too fast in the first place then there is not a lot you can do. I once saw a caravan outfit losing it on a steep hill: the whole outfit jacknifed and ended up leaping over a hedge landing on its wheels in a neighbouring field more or less intact. Sadly that was not true of the occupants who survived, but only just. He too appeared to have tried to accelerate out of it on a hill that was getting rapidly steeper as he progressed. Having come into the hill too fast to start with, it seemed to me there was nothing he could have done to save the situation.
hlb
RIP
Ok iF you want to teach grandmothers to suck eggs. Carry on.
But first lets see your qualifications.
I'll make a start with 25 trips to Iraq Kuwait and Saudi Arabia with up to 130 tons on the back.
Exelerating out of a snaking trailer situation is not to be taken lightly, it's a last resort. You can get back under control. Unfortunatly you are now going even faster and have to keep excelerating to keep control. The only hope is, you can keep excelerating till you reach a hill, so that the trailer slows the car down, not the car slowing the trailer.
Thats why I gave the original advice. Dont ever get into this position. I did once on the M62. I was in the middle lane passing a row of trucks going up a hill. At the top of the hill the trucks started to excelerate down the other side, leaving me with a cortina M5 and a very heavy 4 wheel trailer, stuck in the middle lane with no where to go. It started to snake. My options were. Get mangled by the convoy of trucks. Or try to keep control. There was a hill ahead, so I excelerated till I got to the hill, then let nature take its course and slow me down. Avoid getting into this situation. If you do, make sure you have a big hill infront to stop you. Other wise yer doomed.
But first lets see your qualifications.
I'll make a start with 25 trips to Iraq Kuwait and Saudi Arabia with up to 130 tons on the back.
Exelerating out of a snaking trailer situation is not to be taken lightly, it's a last resort. You can get back under control. Unfortunatly you are now going even faster and have to keep excelerating to keep control. The only hope is, you can keep excelerating till you reach a hill, so that the trailer slows the car down, not the car slowing the trailer.
Thats why I gave the original advice. Dont ever get into this position. I did once on the M62. I was in the middle lane passing a row of trucks going up a hill. At the top of the hill the trucks started to excelerate down the other side, leaving me with a cortina M5 and a very heavy 4 wheel trailer, stuck in the middle lane with no where to go. It started to snake. My options were. Get mangled by the convoy of trucks. Or try to keep control. There was a hill ahead, so I excelerated till I got to the hill, then let nature take its course and slow me down. Avoid getting into this situation. If you do, make sure you have a big hill infront to stop you. Other wise yer doomed.
Nautorius
Well-Known Member
OK,
I have trailered boats all over Europe and UK. The bigest boat was a Chapparral 240 (3200kg) with trailer. Towed behing a LWB Nissan Terrano 2.7TDI. It was hard work and difficult on hills. I once had to slam on doing 40 and the car and trailer stopped but the boat carried on braking 2, 5ton lorry straps. Fortunately the snubbing post absorbed impact (and was very bent). Towing a boat is not easy of that size but with care it can be done. Just remember to plan, plan and then plan again. if my boat had landed on the Terrano roof we may be dead. I had 4 straps on her and that and a substantial snubbing post saved us all.
A decision not to be taken lightly, but one that with care can be rewarding.
PS, My rear suspension on a 3.0l Renault Laguna BTCC spec collapsed after towing a 2000kg boat over 3500 miles in a year! (very embarrasing as just pulling boat out at ferry nab (windermere) with a lot of peeps watching! I loved that car as well so beware of towing over the limits of your vehicle.
Paul /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I have trailered boats all over Europe and UK. The bigest boat was a Chapparral 240 (3200kg) with trailer. Towed behing a LWB Nissan Terrano 2.7TDI. It was hard work and difficult on hills. I once had to slam on doing 40 and the car and trailer stopped but the boat carried on braking 2, 5ton lorry straps. Fortunately the snubbing post absorbed impact (and was very bent). Towing a boat is not easy of that size but with care it can be done. Just remember to plan, plan and then plan again. if my boat had landed on the Terrano roof we may be dead. I had 4 straps on her and that and a substantial snubbing post saved us all.
A decision not to be taken lightly, but one that with care can be rewarding.
PS, My rear suspension on a 3.0l Renault Laguna BTCC spec collapsed after towing a 2000kg boat over 3500 miles in a year! (very embarrasing as just pulling boat out at ferry nab (windermere) with a lot of peeps watching! I loved that car as well so beware of towing over the limits of your vehicle.
Paul /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Elza_Skip
Well-Known Member
It can and does go all WRONG
I have recent and frightening experience of when it goes all wrong when this summer when setting off on our main holiday the trailer got into a snake, jack knifed and tipped over.
Car and trailer written off and 20K damage to boat. We have lost the whole summer boating and are only getting it back this week-end.
We tried to do everything right with a new trailer set up by an expert, towing with a discovery, all heavy equipment in the car, check noseweight and tyre pressures etc. so still do not know why it happened.
In the end the police and recovery peeps say that they have attended numerous similar accidents in the same place so I will never know.
That was a sealine S23 with an all up weight just inside the 3,500 kg towing limit
Ultimately I would recommend that with a big set up, be meticoulous about set up, a good trailer etc and drive 10mph than it feels safe at and slow down before the crest of a hill (that's what got us)
Will i tow it again- I probably would but we have not bought a new trailer and I do not think my wife would be willing to again
I have recent and frightening experience of when it goes all wrong when this summer when setting off on our main holiday the trailer got into a snake, jack knifed and tipped over.
Car and trailer written off and 20K damage to boat. We have lost the whole summer boating and are only getting it back this week-end.
We tried to do everything right with a new trailer set up by an expert, towing with a discovery, all heavy equipment in the car, check noseweight and tyre pressures etc. so still do not know why it happened.
In the end the police and recovery peeps say that they have attended numerous similar accidents in the same place so I will never know.
That was a sealine S23 with an all up weight just inside the 3,500 kg towing limit
Ultimately I would recommend that with a big set up, be meticoulous about set up, a good trailer etc and drive 10mph than it feels safe at and slow down before the crest of a hill (that's what got us)
Will i tow it again- I probably would but we have not bought a new trailer and I do not think my wife would be willing to again
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Well I reckon we're saying precisely the same thing.
Snaking is a resonance. If it's just starting your are entering the period of resonance and accelerating will make matters worse. When I spun the whole outfit it was on the M62 in East Yorkshire. There are no hills, so I was stuffed. The snaking became so violent that I waited until the trailer came out on one side and braked very hard. The trailer took over and pulled the whole outfit around. We were very lucky not to clip a barrier or trip up. Luckily it was a Sunday morning and the road was deserted. We stopped in a jack-knife position so unhitched, straightened the car up, re-hitched and carried on. But much more slowly.
It depends on the trailer and weight distribution. I've towed rally cars on trailers up and down hills in blizzards with no problems
Those anti-snake dampers are a great thing. I've a mate with a landy who tows a 2.5 ton steamboat and he can tell straight away if he's forgotten to engage it.
Snaking is a resonance. If it's just starting your are entering the period of resonance and accelerating will make matters worse. When I spun the whole outfit it was on the M62 in East Yorkshire. There are no hills, so I was stuffed. The snaking became so violent that I waited until the trailer came out on one side and braked very hard. The trailer took over and pulled the whole outfit around. We were very lucky not to clip a barrier or trip up. Luckily it was a Sunday morning and the road was deserted. We stopped in a jack-knife position so unhitched, straightened the car up, re-hitched and carried on. But much more slowly.
It depends on the trailer and weight distribution. I've towed rally cars on trailers up and down hills in blizzards with no problems
Those anti-snake dampers are a great thing. I've a mate with a landy who tows a 2.5 ton steamboat and he can tell straight away if he's forgotten to engage it.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
sort of goes back to some of the other threads happening on various forums here at the moment, but my current 4x4 has anti snaking software built into the ESP programme, and it works. Any snaking movement, and the software detects it, and brakes individual wheels to contain the problem, without you having to do anything
steverl
Member
I took my boat over to Croatia this summer - trailer + boat about 3 tonnes - car Disco 3 fully loaded about 3.5 tonnes. All started well initially - air suspension levelled the car and trailer, and enough power so as not to be troubled by any of the hills en route. However, just outside Brussels, I got stuck in traffic for about 30 mins. A few miles later, the clutch went. I am still not sure what caused this - could have been previous use of car, or manufacturing problem (took 5 weeks to get replacement as part was being re-engineered). However, the service manager at the garage said that I should have an automatic as the transmission was much more robust.
Anyhow, once back on the road, I averaged about 40mph. One of the major constraints to speed was the road surface - where it was uneven, especially with tramlines, I had to reduce speed in order to feel in control of the car.
Anyhow, once back on the road, I averaged about 40mph. One of the major constraints to speed was the road surface - where it was uneven, especially with tramlines, I had to reduce speed in order to feel in control of the car.
hlb
RIP
Yep you said it. Trailer snake'd. You braked. hard, trailer took over. Yer talking crap. You did all the wrong things. Cant comment if no hills. Already said that. Rally cars weigh Fu*all.
Look. I dont get my self involved when talking about Guesthouses in the lakes. Dont talk crap, where you have little knowlage.
Others have far more experience than me.
The guys asked an immortant point about trailering 3.5 tons. At this weight. There is nothing in the car industry that will confidentually deal with it You need to go commercial. It's nothing to do with what is allowed. The towing vehicle needs to be much heavier than what is towed. Different iff an artic. But we are not going there, or do you realy want to discuss that subject between breakfast in bed. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Look. I dont get my self involved when talking about Guesthouses in the lakes. Dont talk crap, where you have little knowlage.
Others have far more experience than me.
The guys asked an immortant point about trailering 3.5 tons. At this weight. There is nothing in the car industry that will confidentually deal with it You need to go commercial. It's nothing to do with what is allowed. The towing vehicle needs to be much heavier than what is towed. Different iff an artic. But we are not going there, or do you realy want to discuss that subject between breakfast in bed. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
britemp
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
neither of those would be a problem in high ratio for me. Enough torque to drive up any hill with a trailer, and will potter along quite happily in tickover at queue speed. It's an auto, so no clutch issues
[/ QUOTE ]
No clutch issues and no engine braking in high, so plenty of brake issues! I use low-ratio on the road for descending hills under control wothout using the service brakes, not for hill-climbing. Using 2nd low down a 1in4 with 3.5 tonnes on the back is the correct way to do it. Foot on the brake all the way down hoping they don't fade with a GTW of 5 tonnes is the numpty way. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
neither of those would be a problem in high ratio for me. Enough torque to drive up any hill with a trailer, and will potter along quite happily in tickover at queue speed. It's an auto, so no clutch issues
[/ QUOTE ]
No clutch issues and no engine braking in high, so plenty of brake issues! I use low-ratio on the road for descending hills under control wothout using the service brakes, not for hill-climbing. Using 2nd low down a 1in4 with 3.5 tonnes on the back is the correct way to do it. Foot on the brake all the way down hoping they don't fade with a GTW of 5 tonnes is the numpty way. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
britemp
Well-Known Member
So you towed a 3200kg trailer with a Nissan that's limited to towing 2800kg legally and a 2000kg trailer with a Renault limited to towing 1550kg legally? All the time you were towing you were uninsured as insurance is not valid if towing limits exceeded.
Next time you tow, let me know where and I'll avoid those roads - I don't want an unisinsured car and boat landing on my car, ta very much! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Next time you tow, let me know where and I'll avoid those roads - I don't want an unisinsured car and boat landing on my car, ta very much! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Obviously taken to much grape or grain and by the middle of the night I can't make head or tail of what you're saying.
Except of course that you don't know the situation because you weren't there, didn't have the opportunity to try everything to overcome the problem and didn't have to make a decision in order to avoid an uncontrolled accident.
But of course you're a wagon driver. I know a lot of wagon drivers and it seems I know less about everything than they do.
I've had a B&B for 4 years.
I've had many other careers before that.
Except of course that you don't know the situation because you weren't there, didn't have the opportunity to try everything to overcome the problem and didn't have to make a decision in order to avoid an uncontrolled accident.
But of course you're a wagon driver. I know a lot of wagon drivers and it seems I know less about everything than they do.
I've had a B&B for 4 years.
I've had many other careers before that.
stevetaz
New Member
SWB shogun is 3.3
LWB is 3.5
LWB is 3.5
hlb
RIP
Erm, no. I never really have been a wagon driver as such. More a company director with many carreer changes as the world moved on.
whisper
Well-Known Member
Well I was one in an earlier incarnation AND yes you're probably correct /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
