craic
New member
"Amen" to that. Do take care.
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Trailer Sailors!
- Thread starter Zagato
- Start date
TSB240
Well-known member
Marmite Trailer sailers?
Drascombes
Mc Gregors
love em or hate em
I think a better name for an open day boat style should be a sea tent!
Similarly the trailable yacht especially the water ballasted should be designated a sea caravan.
At the moment my ideal modern TS would be something like the Elan210.
Be a while before I could afford one though!
It is totally wrong to try and make any comparison between this type of ts and a replica from a bygone age like the Drascombe.
Drascombes
Mc Gregors
love em or hate em
I think a better name for an open day boat style should be a sea tent!
Similarly the trailable yacht especially the water ballasted should be designated a sea caravan.
At the moment my ideal modern TS would be something like the Elan210.
Be a while before I could afford one though!
It is totally wrong to try and make any comparison between this type of ts and a replica from a bygone age like the Drascombe.
Signed Out
Active member
Strange how a few comments about water ballast have seemed to suggest it being a bad thing. Negative buoyancy? Eh? Sea caravan? (strangely, just writing that, the train passed Galgate & I saw one of those amphibious caravans on the Lanc Canal).
Could someone please explain to me why this system is poor? Sorry if that sounds like I am criticising caravans...
All I can think of is if there is a leaking system, but on a passage a leaking fuel tank or potable water tank would be as catastrophic, so are usually well built. Otherwise a 'movable' ballast system, where only the windward tanks are loaded could be left over on a gybe and cause some imbalance, but that's more for racing folk.
Oh, and nasty critters can be carried to new environments and ruin the local ecosystem. Not sure that's going to happen much in Chi Harbour though.
Could someone please explain to me why this system is poor? Sorry if that sounds like I am criticising caravans...
All I can think of is if there is a leaking system, but on a passage a leaking fuel tank or potable water tank would be as catastrophic, so are usually well built. Otherwise a 'movable' ballast system, where only the windward tanks are loaded could be left over on a gybe and cause some imbalance, but that's more for racing folk.
Oh, and nasty critters can be carried to new environments and ruin the local ecosystem. Not sure that's going to happen much in Chi Harbour though.
Neil
Well-known member
That looks like an excellent boat! I want one.
However, I see no mention of rigging time, and by the looks of it, it doesn't look to be that easy. I'd want to know it could be done in less than 30 mins singlehandedly before I started to think where I might beg, borrow or steal the money for it........
Signed Out
Active member
Elan 210's very pretty in a modern way (ie not what Zag's after, but a pleasant diversion from topic), but probably fragile and with vulnerable bits all over- sprit, bulbed keel, twin rudders and tall skinny mast. Perhaps a bit risky for a ts life. Looks to me like a modern Hunter F1 or Jen Sun/1st 210. Or even E. Bet there's not much demand for a gunter version either...
Mind you, square top mains are just 'new gaff', so maybe.
Mind you, square top mains are just 'new gaff', so maybe.
craic
New member
I cannot explain that, other than that waterballast is widely met with stubborn ignorance by people who never used it. I am using a waterballast-on-demand system since 2005 -and am using it hard- in three different boats, and it has changed my sailing life completely. Easy trailering and fast planing with the ballast out, and cruising even racing safe from capsizing in galeforce winds and seas on the Atlantic coast with the ballastwater in, singlehanding btw. What more can I say.
Penton Hooker
New member
I wouldn't suggest that water ballast is a bad thing, but neither would I suggest that a salesmen plugging it as a plus point is right either!
I used the phrase 'negative buoyancy' because that is what it is, simple matter of physics. I did consider buying an American built trailer sailor with water ballast but after considerable thought, including borrowing one for a weekend, I decided against it. I appreciate that water ballast in larger boats, submarines and ships has been around for a long time but weighing a semi displacement dinghy down with water ballast does seem pretty nonsensical to me. It is a weight within the hull that is not particularly effective at increasing righting movement since the weight to windward is equal to that that is to leeward, and that is dependent on the ballast tank being full. The weight of water within water is?
I can see merit in using water ballast in a displacement hull, especially one that is going to be towed behind a small car, but not in a dinghy where weight placement can be crucial.
I would be happy to be proven wrong.
I used the phrase 'negative buoyancy' because that is what it is, simple matter of physics. I did consider buying an American built trailer sailor with water ballast but after considerable thought, including borrowing one for a weekend, I decided against it. I appreciate that water ballast in larger boats, submarines and ships has been around for a long time but weighing a semi displacement dinghy down with water ballast does seem pretty nonsensical to me. It is a weight within the hull that is not particularly effective at increasing righting movement since the weight to windward is equal to that that is to leeward, and that is dependent on the ballast tank being full. The weight of water within water is?
I can see merit in using water ballast in a displacement hull, especially one that is going to be towed behind a small car, but not in a dinghy where weight placement can be crucial.
I would be happy to be proven wrong.
Lakesailor
New member
Would Neutral Buoyancy be a better term?
Signed Out
Active member
It's only 'negative buoyancy' in the same way that that is exactly what all ballast is. Water in water is 'neutral', ie itself, but it is displacing the air that is the positively buoyant medium in a vessel that would be heavier than water, and with any heeling it is then acting downwards. It is only counteracted equally by the leeward ballast if the hull rotates around the point right in the centre of a circular section and the ballast masses are to the perpendicar sides of here. In a boat, including a drascombe, this isn't the case and effectively the water ballast will be acting against the air, not the water. Like you say, simple physics.
Penton Hooker
New member
Could be, maybe six of of one, half a dozen of the other, so long as we understand each other.
Overall it could be an interesting discussion.
Jemm, it would only be acting against the air, surely, when the water ballast is above the surface of the water?
I can see that it is acting as ballast at that point, but the weight being so generally dispersed throughout the hull must mean that it is of limited effectiveness. Drascombes have been critiscised for the loss of storage since the introduction of closed cell foam bouyancy, but the loss of useful storage by the use of water ballast can also be critiscised.
Overall it could be an interesting discussion.
Jemm, it would only be acting against the air, surely, when the water ballast is above the surface of the water?
I can see that it is acting as ballast at that point, but the weight being so generally dispersed throughout the hull must mean that it is of limited effectiveness. Drascombes have been critiscised for the loss of storage since the introduction of closed cell foam bouyancy, but the loss of useful storage by the use of water ballast can also be critiscised.
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TSB240
Well-known member
Changed my mind I have fallen in love with the french Pogo 2 design
Not offered with a lift keel yet.....
Very similar in design to the Elan 210 bit beamier and just 90mm too wide for our trailer and load regs!
Transatlantic race proven designs
1tonne sailing weight easily towed by a family car
http://www.finot.com/bateaux/batproduction/structures/pogo2/pogo2_pres.htm
Who needs water ballast or 50HP motor!
Zagato
Well-known member
Well deliberations are finally over, thank you all for advice and suggestions I have learnt a great deal from all your posts! 
I had never heard of a Falmouth Bass boat or BayCruiser a few days ago and it's also interesting to hear how people prioritise different characteristics and abilities in their boats!
I am picking up a Drascombe Drifter in 3 weeks To me she is beatiful, the family can chug around the estuary in her in comfort and I can have a go at sailing her on my own without hitting anything . I can put her on a cheap half tide mooring where she will sit upright and can take her down to Falmouth to play in my old sailing grounds with confidence Roll on 3 weeks
I had never heard of a Falmouth Bass boat or BayCruiser a few days ago and it's also interesting to hear how people prioritise different characteristics and abilities in their boats! I am picking up a Drascombe Drifter in 3 weeks
To me she is beatiful, the family can chug around the estuary in her in comfort and I can have a go at sailing her on my own without hitting anything . I can put her on a cheap half tide mooring where she will sit upright and can take her down to Falmouth to play in my old sailing grounds with confidence Roll on 3 weeks
Lakesailor
New member
Well, you've had a good range to consider.
Hope you enjoy it.
Hope you enjoy it.
DownWest
Well-known member
Penton Hooker
New member
Signed Out
Active member
Hope you have a great time with her and more success in avoiding queasiness!
Zagato
Well-known member
Cheers Gem
BAtoo
New member
RobF
Active member
Buy a flatbed lorry as featured in a recent PBO and the world is your oyster. It's a shame they don't make a cruising version of the Pogo with comfy bunks and a proper cooker and sink - wouldn't add much to the weight!
TSB240
Well-known member
Thanks for that. You have just made my day.
I shall continue to dream......
Now how much do I have to save?
Sorry Zag to steal your thread.
All the best with your purchase. I hope you will give us some feedback on your outings.
Steve