Trader – does a leopard ever change it spots?

I have always liked Traders, but could never buy one because the behind the scenes finish always looked cheap IMHO. When I was in that position I bought a Fleming back in 1991. A bit of a leap of faith as it was the first in the UK but I did try one in California.
Maybe the Trader 64 is better, I have not been on one. How about the Fleming or Grand Banks Aleutian, they are real boats IMHO.
Have you looked at those, if so what did you think?
 
Glenn

I agree with your comments, the questions that I keep asking myself are :-

is Gludy pi55ing Trader off with constant public threats to sue etc ?

did he realise the boat was being made in the far east and hence not realise quality might not be as good !

why were the faults not noticed on survey & retentions held etc

however I dont know Gludy or Trader so this is purely speculation on my part and I do hope issues are resolved
 
Glenn
I have sent you a PM.

I can promise that nothing I did resulted in a boat that did not have the thrust of the 1400hp of engines to be not attached to it. Nothing I did constructed a keel that had only 1 mm of glass fibre in it and so it crumbled. Nothing I did caused them to leave out the side baffles so that water was directed into the engine room roof even filling up the light fittings........ I could repeat that over 200 times.

Also I gave great publicity on these very forums in support of Trader. It is not personal at all. It has become personal now because of they way I was fobbed off for so long.

Also I am not a one off ... a long way from it.

I know folks who bitterly regret any involvement and I know folks who loved the boats so much they went through two winters of hell but now have a boat they would never part with.

I like the boats and if it all worked ( a state of affairs I hope to be in soon) will enjoy it no end. I was going to buy a 64 but would never, ever deal with them again.

I am on the boat now and basically applied a lot of pressure yesterday to prevent a repeat of my first 6 months of weekly broken promises. I think Trader emloy some good people at Emsworth. The way the business is run IMHO is absuird beyond belief.

Also I will never buy a boat from a company with assets far less than the value o the boat I am buying and if you took away the intangable assets - nowt.

All I can do is lay out the facts for you. I can also provide other sources of info and then you can decide.

The boat I had before this was a Squadron 59, its still here at Emsworth - so we seem to be on the same path!
 
The basic price of the 72 foot Marlow is £1.1m plus Vat.
The highest spec version is £1.5m plus VAT and that is one hell of a boat.

With the weak dollar, the 65 Marlow is way, way cheaper than the 64 foot Trader and there is no comparision on quality or performance.
 
Hi Jim yep I have looked at the Flemming and they are extremely nice boats unfortunately they are to big for my water - we have a 20 mtr berth in Spain and they are VERY hot on NOT letting you have larger. The flemming loa is ok but the length when one takes into account the anchor mount and swim platform is over 21 mtrs - The Grand Banks did not light my fire.
The Trader however is a magnificent beast provided the engines are tied on tight (sorry paul)
 
Hi Paul, I have looked at the Marlow web site and I,m afraid the 65 a bit to wide for my berth also I must say that I prefer the layout on the trader - both the stern and the salon on the treader does it for me. I,m sure it is all a matter of taste but whatever lights your fire!
 
It seems to me that the Trader 64 is the boat for Glenn fitting his restrictions on beam and length etc.

As I have stated many times, once my boat is all fixed (says he some 15 months after its delivery) I will enjoy using her. If all the problems had not occurred, she is the boat I wanted. Even now the TC simply does not provide the resources to cure the problem with the result that every weekend now for almost 15 months my life has revolved around getting the boat fixed rather than using her. Its is frankly pure hell – like a marathon course that I cannot afford to let go of.

My big problem has been the way Trader have handled that problem and in particular how the owners of Trader have handled it. I would never, ever do business again with them and if asked, would always have to state that opinion to any third party.

So the question becomes - how best to buy the 64 and I have no doubt about that. The best way is through Trader Yachts in Wales who are an independent company operating a professional and honest business. When they get a Trader in they call in all the component part suppliers to check over the boat so everything from engines to stabilisers are checked and fixed if required here in the UK.

So anyone who wants a Trader should first ensure it has the right spec, little things like ensuring that the trails anetc are all done in the UK and all systems cehcked over by UK suppliers, other little things like makinmg sure that SWMBO's clothes are not able to simply drop out of the drawer into the bilges etc - I and many others could help with that by ensuring that the boat has a spec removing as many problems as possible and then purchase it through a reputable dealer such as Trader Yachts Wales. That would be my advice to Glen.

I think it is so sad that many people like, even love what the Trader as a boat has to offer. They simply have to go through a lot of pain to have the problems sorted. They return of a Trader to Emsworth for extensive work is not unusual - its the norm. Once its all fixed they are good boats and a really good business could be built up if it was run better.

After all the publicity followed by the lull to give them a chance to get it all fixed, you would think that TC would ensure that my boat was resourced to fix the problems and get rid of me … but no. I am immersed back into the same old, same old cycle of broken promises as week after week passes. Frankly if the only way that I can get my boat fixed is to kick, then I shall kick. I am simply not going to allow TC to get away with it. I have been promised that on Monday Trader will inform me of the completion times for each problem ….. so as we enter week 7 almost double the planned time with many items on the list have not even started to be actioned, I am now at least to be told what the next plan is.

It does seem that the only way I can get TC to actually act is to apply kicks. So be it, I am putting on the boots and if I have to will ensure publicity of the facts, the truth way beyond what TC could ever consider possible.

I do not want to fight - I simply want a boat that works so that it can be used. I am so tired of all this but I am simply not going to give in because to do so would mean that I have a boat that I cannot be used. I have no real choice but to fight.
 
Paul - it seems to me that you will get there in the end - keep smiling.

However if I were Glenn - I wouldnt go there.
He sais somewhere in this thread that he would hold some kind of retention.
Is this actually possible? - given Trader's balance sheet.
And can a retention address the sort of problems you are having - we only live once in this world and time isnt on our side - the last thing Glenn wants IMHO is to run into the sort of problems that you've had.

Personally, I've been looking at new boats - Traders are not on my list and never will be.

Best of luck though - I cant see any other way that you should progress.
 
If Glenn orders via Wales he is dealing with a better balance sheet and a dealer that has a very good reputation. I know people who have dealt with Wales and are happy. In fact I do not know any unhappy ones but i do know some who had problems that got sorted without hesitation and that is all you can ask.

If I was Glenn I would also not go there but he really likes and wants a 64 so it boils down to how best to get one and I have offered my advice.

I will keep smiling because basically I have no choice - I have to struggle through a weekly disappointment cycle but there is no point in getting depressed about it. TC mucked up my purchases, took all the joy out of it and controls the resources that are currently released to fix my boat but he does not own any part of my brain /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ..... and my day will come ... promise. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Having had my site hacked into and all the threads deleted - totally my own stupid fault because when I took it in 15 minutes from a development forum to the real thing posting the Ocean Deep mail I forget to improve the security.

I chose not to copy and paste the threads back under the new security because I thought I would give Trader a breather, give them a chance to put it all right. They are working every day on the new keel and work is in progress on the new engine room roof but just about everything else has been left - not even actions taken to kick off the process by ordering etc. So there never was any chance of the 3 to 4 weeks because no actions were taken on dozens of items.

I am not even blaming the management at the yard – in the end they do not control the resources. I think they mean well.

The new 42 has arrived and apart from its tiny and dangerous narrow bathing platform ( a proper width one is an optional extra!) it looks a good boat. Nice lines but I suppose thgat is a perosnal thing. However the dollar has dropped to nearly $2 per £1 so why are these so expensive? There must now be a huge margin on them no doubt leaving room for some fantastic deals.
 
i like new things but a near new boat is a hunk cheaper with lots of the niggles gone. praps choose our boat as new...and then see if here any around nearly new? Of course, the fewer options the more liklley you are tofind one you like...
 
True but there was nothing around with the main options such as stablisers etc.

Once sorted Traders are well liked by their owners. Even I would like my boat if i was not having the keel drop off, or topping up thg gear box with a gallon of oil every hours or getting drenched with saltwater dripping from the engine room roof etc However all those, inluding the engine thrust not being attached was as nothing compared to the fact that SWMBO had to trow all her tops away from the drawer that we just found had no back to it and was exposed to the bilge atmosphere!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That has placed Trader in a very dangerous position - far more danger there than anything I can do /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Ah, I see now, its done so that you will have an adequate supply of err...rags to mop up the mess in the engine room, fine example of forward thinking by Trader. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Yes - you could be right - maybe its a very crafty way of occasionally depositing such rags in the bilges to suck up the bilge mess. A Sort of ABS system for boats (Anticpated Bilge Soakup system). I wonder if that exists on their new 64? Also how do they know which side of the bed who sleeps on in advance and hence wich drawersm to target? There are all sorts of questions that can be raised going down that road.

In addition to all that of course depriving SWMBO's of their tops maybe a sort of built in entertainment system or maybe its just a mod for the Med that by mistake was fitted to my boat?
 
Definitely no contest, gludy but I've been wondering about the £/$ exchange rate myself and it's effect on boat prices. Traders are built in Taiwan but my guess is that most of the costs of building them are US $ denominated and even for those costs denominated in the local currency, Taiwanese $, the costs should be rising or falling in line with the US $ because the Taiwanese $/US $ exchange rate has been fairly constant in recent years (unlike £/$).
Basically what I'm trying to say is that because Sterling has risen so much against the US $ recently, the price of Traders should have fallen in Sterling terms but they have'nt. Why not? Why should the Trader 64 cost so much more than the Marlow 65? Correct me if I'm wrong but I guess the Marlow is also made in the Far East and therefore should cost roughly the same as the Trader
Is Tarquin making excessive profits on boat sales as a result of maintaining or increasing their Sterling prices despite the fall in the US $?
 
The prices of both boats are based in USA $.

yes traders should have dropped in price and in effect the deals they actually offer which are well below RRP do reflect that drop in price. By the way the Marlow 65 is much, much larger than the Trader 64 - another 3 foor on the beam for a starter. Same for the Aquastar 65 - its a much larger boat than the Trader.

Being fair - There are other makes also with their prices basede in $ such as Felming, Grand Banks etc - I do not think we are seing the price drop in those although it may be possible to do a better deal.

After 7 weeks at Emsworth Trader have decided to employ a contract boat fitter to help on my boats as they simply do not have enough resources to begin to do the boat without help. What gets to me is its taken almost two months to get to that position!!! Its as if the fact that after 15 months I am still unable to use the boat is of no great concern ..... I find that amazing.

I am holding them responsible for all my lack of use - most of the last 15 months, so that claim is just getting bigger and bigger as time rolls by.

I would have hoped that if they wanted to get rid of anyone from their yard it would be me .... but nope. Leopards do not change their spots.
 
Hi Paul, well I,m pleased that Tarquin has at last decided to take the matter seriously by instructing outside help with your boat.
I took your advice and visited Trader wales specifically James Law - he struck me as a decent chap. We shall progress with him I think provided he can work wonders on the price. I believe in leaving something for the other chap but I sincerely hope that we can negotiate a deal that we are both happy with - I shall keep you informed. Footnote. we are also viewing a Aqua star on Friday as this boat might be a serious contender.
 
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