Trader – does a leopard ever change it spots?

The Aquastars are very nice boats - however check the beam for your berth - I think they are fairly wide.
An Aquastar 65 is much larger than a Trader 64.

The outside help in the form of one person has come after a 100% overun in time and after me creating hell.
 
The Aquastar is a lot more boat for the money.
If you go that wayI would insist on a regular survey inpsection during construction.
They can do a lot of bespoke mods to the Aqustar as well. I almost went down that road myself.
 
I will keep you informed after our Friday visit - we are seeing a Flemming at the same time - just to say we have looked at everything available in our scope.
One other point that worries me Paul - James Law stated to us that monies paid over as stage payments are protected by being put into a clients account but what stops him from just taking it out to use in his ordinary operations for running the Co. ???????????? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Kind Regards
Glenn
 
James Law and Trader Wales are a well run business. I have no doubt what he states is true. Also make the monies paid into the client account part of the contract and to breach it may well be fraud but as I have stated many times Trader Wales which is a totally different business to Trader in Emsworth is a well run company with a well desrved good local reputation.

Femings are very good boats and a good business selling them althopugh I really would expect some price reduction with thge weak dollar or to pay in $ to match the USA price.

Whats happening Friday? You did not say.
 
client accounts?

hmm, unless you or some trustworthy 3rd party have control over withdrawals, then I imagine there's nothing to stop it.

Doubtless Tarquin will want access to the stage payments, because otherwise they'd be unable to pay the factory in Taiwan. So unless Wales are gonna fund these payments out of their own capital, they're going to want access to your stage payments.


With luck, and despite the possibly unusually high number of issues with Ocean Deep, Paul will end up with a decent boat. I'm not sure I'd want to buy a new boat knowing that even 30% of Paul's issues will need to be resolved somehow.

Perhaps dampness behind wardrobes/drawers won't be such a problem in the med ? Maybe the teak on OD was just a bad batch? etc etc


and umm, I'd be seriously thinking about re-sale value given Paul's likely legal action & publicity, hmm, and should Tarquin have some major unexpected costs ( see above) before your intended 64 was delivered?
Just thinking aloud of course.
 
Not seeking to disparage Trader Wales, about whom I know next to nothing but the term "clients account" is one which causes some confusion.

I am a solicitor and we have to hold clients' money in a separate account from our own. There are special rules for how we can use that money which have statutory force. Most importantly for our clients, however, is that behind those rules is an insurance backed guarantee that the money is safe and will be replaced if the account is abused. As a solicitor,if you don't operate this arrangement you cannot hold a practising certificate.

I don't know how other businesses that hold clients' money are regulated or what guarantees are in place to protect against abuse but I would always want to check.
 
The fact remains though that Trader Wales are a well run honest business and if they state client account then it will be client account. The contract would need to examine how the payments are made to Taiwan from the client account of course.

My guess is that this last session at Emsworth will have taken 3 months instead of the planned 3 to 4 weeks so the lack of use claims is really adding up. We are currently in week 7 with much to do.

My direct costs and lack of use exceed the £100k mark but I do not think that Trader will fold for that. They have 42's and 64's on order and would have to say bye bye to all those. However, I do not know and can only give an opinion.

What really, really gets to me is that even now, after all the fuss I have created, they still could not devote the correct resources to fixing my boat. I have had to get tough again to get action. The fact is that after n15 months I still have a boat that I cannot use. I will make sure that I am paid for that.
 
I agree with you. A client account is just another account which Trader Wales can use for their own purposes. Even if it is used properly, no doubt Trader Wales has to purchase the boat from Tarquin's sales company at Emsworth so any buyer using Trader Wales is still at financial risk from Tarquin Emsworth who, as gludy has found, is a small company with few assets
IMHO, buying a boat from an overseas builder via a UK dealer is potentially very risky if you are making stage payments. At least if you buy direct from a UK yard or a wholly owned subsidiary sales operation, the contract would probably allow you to take possession of the part built boat in the event that the builder went bust. If either Trader Wales or Tarquin Emsworth went bust or failed to pass on your stage payments to the factory, there is no way that you could claim a part built boat from the Taiwanese factory. For that reason alone and especially given Tarquin's reputation, IMHO, the only safe option if you want to buy a Trader is to buy one that already exists in the UK and take possession of it at the same time as paying for it
 
Well Guys, what a helpful bunch you are - food for thought indeed !!!!! Paul we are seeing the Aquastar Today and the Flemming also. We shall report back.
Yesterday I had a phone call in the AM from Mr Tony Chappell - He had been contacted by Wales and wanted to come and see me to "put a few matters right" I explained that I had decided to deal with Wales but he still requested a visit to me - so yesterday PM he and I had a meeting.
This I have to report was less than satisfactory or pleasant.
I listened to what he had to say and then explained that I still wished to deal with Trader Wales - Unfortunately he then stated that I would not be able to purchase from Wales as I lived in England !! If I wanted a Trader 64 I would HAVE to purchase from him. - His exact words were " I will not supply Wales with a boat that has dealer discount" He explained that Trader Wales did not have a contract with him that allowed them to sell to peeps in England.
For the record James Law (Trader Wales) emphatically states that he does indeed have the right , although not exclusively, to sell to peeps from England.
So we shall watch this space. !!!
 
Goodness me Glenn...

Yes, I'm quite sure that Trader Wales don't only sell to Welsh residents - and what a shame that even before a purchase, a meeting with the owner of Trader should be anything less than pleasant.


Enjoy your visits to the Aquastar & Fleming today.
 
Glenn - I live in Wales!!!!
Tony had to drive past Trader Wales to get toi me in Cardiff.

So it would appear that Trader Wales have no rights to sell to only those in Wales unless Trader Emsworth gets there first!! Not much of a deal is it?

I am, as always, amazed that a meeting with a potential client purchasing a £1.5m boat can be unpleasant - I have tested that up to £1m but it seems that the extra 0.5m makes no difference. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Are you sure his name isn't Monty Burns? You can almost hear the cackle has he tells you the only way to buy this boat is through him ... that in itself would prevent me EVER purchasing anything from Trader in Emsworth. I feel sorry for Trader Wales - it would seem that they've been caught up in all this ...
 
Do you know what, this is getting to be Alice in Wonderland stuff from Trader and if I had that sort of money, which I don't, I would be running as fast as possible in the opposite direction towards a company that felt grateful that you were going to spend that sort of money with them and treat you as a valuable customer rather than a nuisance.
 
And you still want to deal with this man!!! Either way you lose as either you have to deal direct with him or, if you deal with Wales, he supplies them the boat
I am truly amazed that Chappell can operate in this way. If somebody came to my company wanting to spend £1.5m, they'd get the complete red carpet treatment, never mind if there were issues with another dealer
 
All that is happening is the truth is being seen as it is.

It would appear that so far the Trader Med dealer has gone - they now sell Horizon yachts, the USA dealer - I could never even contact ... I think they have gone, I do not know about the Australian dealer but I think they have gone . Seems to me that Trader Wales, as far as I am aware are the only Trader dealers left .... I may wrong but that is how it seems.

The chances are that Trader may lose the 64 order form Glenn all together - that would be the result of an incredible attitide right from the top of Trader - an attitude that I currently have to live with every day.

Some may say that it was stupid or wrong of me to make my problems public but you actually reach a point were you are past caring what people think. It has been my only practical route to getting my boat fit to be used. Its 15 months since it arrived at Emsworth - its keel is just being finished but there are still lots of jobs to do including dropping the rudders to repack etc etc etc. I only hope that the extra man trader have contracted in will help get it sorted.

I gave Trader every opportunity by laying low for months to give them a chance to put matters right. I am amazed they did not provide the resources right from the start to do just that.

One benefit of my publicity is that buyers like Glenn can make better judgments on what they are getting into. I bet you the way he is treated by Boat Showrooms for the Fleming and Aquastar is very, very different and will be a pleasant experience.

After all choosing a boat is part of the fun and should be enjoyed. Anybody who understands the simplest marketing concepts would know that.
 
Someone might like to have a look at EU trading law.
I'm no expert but when I had my business, as a supplier through dealers you simply cannot do this. The EU laws we were facing stopped us from insisting that European end users must buy from within their country. In other words if you live in France and want to buy a particular item that is available in France and Spain, you have the right to buy it in Spain. From memory, it was also illegal to price it in such a way as to achieve your goal.

In this case, however, I doubt that Trader Wales want to upset the applecart - but Glen might get some satisfaction by pushing the point.
 
The problem for Glenn is that what should be an enjoyable experience spending £1,5m has already turned unpleasant.

He is clearly being told that he cannot buy from Trader Wales despite this being his wish because Tony Chappel will simply not supply the boat to Trader Wales. Even for Glenn to get involved with that is hassle that I am sure he can do without.

IMHO Trader Wales seem to be in a heads Emsworth wins tails Trader Wales lose ..... they really cannot win the way they are being treated.

On the other hand Glenn is looking at two boats now that are not Traders and both are supplied by reasonable people that I have had some dealings with and came away thinking how good they were in the manner they did business.

In the end no matter how good the people in a small business are (there are some very good people working for Trader) the head of that business sets the tone, the policies and is responsible for how the business operates. If Tony Chappell thinks that he can force customers to come to him, IMHO he is living in a dream world populated by just him.

If Glenn had ordered via Wales Tony Chappel would have made money. If he had ordered directly Tony Chappel would have made money - its obvious that the need to grab the most money is a keen driving force that results in a customer being told you cannot buy from our dealer because we will not supply them ..... totally amazing.
 
I wouldn't touch trader with a 25' disinfected barge pole, after that kind of treatment and behaviour. Neither should anybody else. IMHO
He's got a damn cheek really "you cant buy a trader, unless you buy it from me" Oh yeah! watch my arse, pillock!
 
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