Towable genoa cars on a 27f yacht?

[Gixer]

I had a discussion with someone recently about increasing the performance of my yacht, the conversation got onto sail trim and how much adjustment I have.

I have a good quality genoa with track and cars. The cars are the drop pin type and being honest I hardly ever move them as its a pain to do so. Sometimes I move them when I tack but that's about it.
I've looked into towable cars and they are pretty expensive. I don't mind spending the £'s if it will make a noticeable difference on a yacht of my size, 27f twin keel.

Anyone done this mod and have any feedback?

 

[B27]

How much gain might depend on how your genoa is cut.
A barber hauler is somewhat cheaper...

 

[chris-s]

Can you not modify the cars to be towable? If the pin can be ‘held up’ then it shouldn’t be too difficult. Post a photo of them.

 

[zoidberg]

You could achieve much of the sought adjustment quite easily and cheaply by.....

Lock your t'cars in the rearmost position.
Replace the bolt at the forward end of each track with a ringbolt.
Mount a 'height-adjustable' Low Friction Ring onto each ringbolt using a length of 6-8mm dyneema, in a 2-to-1 purchase.
Lead the free end of each length of dyneema aft to a jammer or cleat, facilitating adjustment of the height of the LFR.
Lead your genoa sheets each through your P&S LFRs back to your cockpit sheet winches.

Bob's yer uncle!

Should you wish, you can rig another pair of 2-to-1 purchases from 'about' the mast base to pull each LFR inboard, closing the sheeting angle. This might permit pointing a handful of degrees closer to the wind.

Magic tweakery!!

 

[Gixer]

Thanks guys, this has given me some options.

I’ll ask the sailmaker about how this would work with my Genoa. Below is my track and car.

 

[zoidberg]

That midships cleat is well positioned for Item Two from above. So also is your U-bolt chainplate just ahead of that.
That's what 'soft shackles' are for.....

 

[Ceirwan]

Towable genoa cars are certainly better, but they only do what you can do already with your pin stops, just less conveniently.
Probably if you don't have the motivation to move them now, then you won't get that much benefit out of it.

You can get some numbered stickers (or use electrical tape) and as you find the best settings for different conditions, you can mark the car position. That's generally how racers do it, have a base setting for each headsail size & tweak it from there if necessary.

 

[tudorsailor]

Why not rig a "twing" as suggested here Jib sheet Twing I have is based on the toe rail so that pulling on the line put the origin of the headsail sheet not only further forwards but also more outboard. I use a Petzl carabiner that has a little pulley at its base
TS

 

[William_H]

All of the above suggestions re barber haulers fore and aft and in and out are good. However if you want to try towed jib cars then as said try to get some thing under the knob of the lock to hold it up. (copper wire wrapped around) Then fit a handy billy type tackle to the front and something similar at the back. This should slide the car remotely from cockpit. However it is likely you will not be able to move the car under load so still have to adjust when not in use then tack to adjust the other side.
One thing for sure you do need to have the car in the correct position if you roll up the genoa on a furler. Perhaps marks next to the track to indicate position for number of rolls. Perhaps relating to marks on the furling line. ie further forward for each roll.
The concept is to turn the boat to begin to luff with jib sheet tight. If the top of the jib luffs first move car forward. ie provides more downward pull to tension the top of the sail. if the bottom luffs first then move car back putting more tension on the lower part. (more pull back of foot). A balance of luffing top and bottom is what you need. You probably know all this but yes it makes a difference.
I have 4 hank on jibs. I use marks next to the car to quickly move the car to the right place for hard on the wind. Off the wind can benefit by moving forward and would benefit even more by moving jib clew outwards. ol'will

 

[flaming]

You could achieve much of the sought adjustment quite easily and cheaply by.....

Lock your t'cars in the rearmost position.
Replace the bolt at the forward end of each track with a ringbolt.
Mount a 'height-adjustable' Low Friction Ring onto each ringbolt using a length of 6-8mm dyneema, in a 2-to-1 purchase.
Lead the free end of each length of dyneema aft to a jammer or cleat, facilitating adjustment of the height of the LFR.
Lead your genoa sheets each through your P&S LFRs back to your cockpit sheet winches.

Bob's yer uncle!

Should you wish, you can rig another pair of 2-to-1 purchases from 'about' the mast base to pull each LFR inboard, closing the sheeting angle. This might permit pointing a handful of degrees closer to the wind.

Magic tweakery!!

Normally I'm all in favour of this option, however, having seen those photos in this case I urge caution.

Firstly that is a really, really long track for that size of boat. Suggesting it has quite a large headsail. But for out purposes, the bigger issue is whether the clew of the headsail comes past the front of the track when sheeted in. If it does then you cannot get the floating ring to work off a ring at the front of the track, as it is then leading aft. You could get another car to fit the track and use that as a suitable anchor point, but by the time you've done that, and bought the friction ring and cascade purchase system that needs, I wonder how much short of an upgrade to towable cars you'd actually be?

If however the clew is in fact in front of the front of the track when sheeted in, then looking at where the car is now (which I assume to be a sort of middle compromise) then the floating ring is going to be considerably higher than the end of the track. Which would leave a LOT of opportunity for a low friction ring to flog against those rather nice looking windows.

 

[Gixer]

There’s lots of points on this thread I haven’t thought about. I’ll go down the weekend and have a good look at the angles when the Genoa is out.

You’ve given me lots of options to explore, the forum has come up trumps again

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We can move our towable cars under full load. You should choose cars that can do that, otherwise it’ll be too hard, just like your pin system

 

[Daverw]

I’m just about to do this, found Barton sliding cars fit my 25mm t track, two cars and end stops with pulleys cost £280, not to bad. Being mostly single handed I find moving current cars not easy, impossible under load, so have to adjust the slack one before tack which I keep forgetting so sail shape never good as it could be

 

[thinwater]

Convert to a 3D lead system using the existing pin cars as a starting point. Very easy and much better than towable cars; lighter and more adjustability.

3D Leads

 

[zoidberg]

Ah, so! But you need to purchase a Farrier-type trimaran to fit the tidy arrangement suggested by Thinwater in #14....

That'd bump up the cost a tad!

 

[Refueler]

You could achieve much of the sought adjustment quite easily and cheaply by.....

Lock your t'cars in the rearmost position.
Replace the bolt at the forward end of each track with a ringbolt.
Mount a 'height-adjustable' Low Friction Ring onto each ringbolt using a length of 6-8mm dyneema, in a 2-to-1 purchase.
Lead the free end of each length of dyneema aft to a jammer or cleat, facilitating adjustment of the height of the LFR.
Lead your genoa sheets each through your P&S LFRs back to your cockpit sheet winches.

Bob's yer uncle!

Should you wish, you can rig another pair of 2-to-1 purchases from 'about' the mast base to pull each LFR inboard, closing the sheeting angle. This might permit pointing a handful of degrees closer to the wind.

Magic tweakery!!

Why not just have a barber hauler .....

I did two things that improved my SR25 hugely .... as the car could not go far enough aft to set the genny - the BH did the job but I got fed up with an extra line to sort each side on a cruising boat.
So I coughed up for a shorter foot genny ... WOW what a difference ... she sails better ... averaging 1/2kt more by my estimate .. BH no longer needed ... furls / unfurls a treat ...

But if I was to convert my pinned cars - I would do as Will suggests ... lock the pins up and then have line fwd / aft to position car as needed .. BUt with that - likely need to do it when sail is not powered.

 

[thinwater]

Ah, so! But you need to purchase a Farrier-type trimaran to fit the tidy arrangement suggested by Thinwater in #14....

That'd bump up the cost a tad!

Not if it's as old as mine!

Multihulls usually focus on outhalers, since we have a lot of beam to aid hauling and because they can be pretty fast off with wind without a chute if the jib is hauled out just so. Tight inside settings for pinching are generally a bad idea, since we are better off sailing just a little full and much faster (I can tack through 80 degrees, but I sail as much as 50% faster tacking through 100 degrees, making practically no leeway).

On a monohull the emphasis might be to haul in (Barberhauler) instead.

My advice is to create temporary hauling set-ups with some spare rope and a few carabiners, and play with various sheet leads settings. Reaching. Beating. Roller furled beating and reaching. Then you will know where you want to haul the sheet. I like having my baseline windward setting be with both haulers off. It's intuative, easy, and what I would suggest if you are starting with pin cars. But some are set up so that both lines are always tensioned.

 

[BobnLesley]

Why not just have a barber hauler .....

Or leave them to sit quietly and contentedly where they are while you crack open another beer.

 

[Gixer]

Or leave them to sit quietly and contentedly where they are while you crack open another beer.

That what I do now but the guilt a killing me...

 

[B27]

One of my dinghies had Barber Haulers, pulling outboard and slightly forwards, this was pretty good for close reaching or 'just cracked off a bit' for sailing a little lower in choppier water.
A boat I used to race on had a second set of outboard genoa tracks, so you could rig a second sheet to the sail.
You've got to keep a crew of 10 busy somehow!