Top loading fridge - lid

[Caladh]

How to get a decent seal on the lid ? I’ve noticed some condensation appearing on the lid when we have warmer weather.

 

[rogerthebodger]

What is the lid made from.

I had this with my fridge wit a stainless steel door/lid.

I replaced the inside with HDPE up to the inside edge of the door and this cured the condensation on the outside of the door

 

[Concerto]

I have the same problem over where the cold plate is mounted. It is due to no insulation under the counter top and keeping the fridge at 4C. I have considered adding a foam seal on the loose lid, but can live with the condensation as I cannot add any insulation above the cold plate.

 

[Refueler]

My wood lid with insulation applied to its underside - has condensation on top .... I dont think its to do with any seal .. its because the lid itself is still cooling lower than air around it even with the insulation.

 

[Caladh]

My wood lid with insulation applied to its underside - has condensation on top .... I dont think its to do with any seal .. its because the lid itself is still cooling lower than air around it even with the insulation.

 

[Caladh]

My fridge is similar with a newish Corian worktop. I’m now of the opinion that the kitchen fitter didn’t put insulation in the lid ans the old lid had.

 

[KompetentKrew]

How to get a decent seal on the lid ? I’ve noticed some condensation appearing on the lid when we have warmer weather.

The seal doesn't matter.

The only way to increase fridge efficiency is improved insulation (or by installing a water-cooled compressor).

When you consider the cost of cooling, what you need to measure is mass.

If you put 2 litres of cola in the fridge, then it will take 4x as much electricity as it would if the bottle was only 500ml. This assumes both bottles are the same temperature - if your fridge is set to 5°c and the 2 litre bottle is 10°c and the 500ml bottle is 25°c then each would take the same amount of energy to cool.

The cost of cooling is primary a function of thermal mass.

The mass of air is negligible. It's often thought that top-loading fridges are "more efficient" than those with a regular door, because "when you open the door, all the air rushes out". But if 40 litres of air rush out when you open the door then that's 51g of mass, or the equivalent of 1/6 of a can of soda.

Your fridge is top-loading anyway, so the air isn't "rushing out" - a tiny amount may seep out around the edges of the seal, but it's not significant in any way. You will see more benefit from stuffing some extra celotex in any empty voids underneath the worktop.

I would guess that corian might be more conductive than plywood, so that might explain it. You could make a new lid by routing it out and filling it with celotex, but the top of my fridge is 2" thick anyway - I assume that's all celotex or (less efficient) expanded polystyrene.

Ignore the mess, look how thick this lid is:

 

[MontyMariner]

Get a suitably sized sandwich box (you might need two depending on thickness of insulation on top of fridge box)
Cut in half
Put insulation in bottom half and make wooden top to seal it
Chisel out rectangle to take foldaway handle
Cut hole in fridge top to take top half of sandwich box
make wooden trim to surround top half of sandwich box.

As the sandwich boxes are designed to stack, you get a perfect fit - Lid to Box





Fridge box

 

[penfold]

My fridge is similar with a newish Corian worktop. I’m now of the opinion that the kitchen fitter didn’t put insulation in the lid ans the old lid had.

Or the insulation has broken down or otherwise become compromised, perhaps moisture ingress; if there's condensation forming it isn't insulating, I would be complaining to the maker if my fridge at home had condensation forming on the outside.

 

[Refueler]

The seal doesn't matter.

The only way to increase fridge efficiency is improved insulation (or by installing a water-cooled compressor).

When you consider the cost of cooling, what you need to measure is mass.

If you put 2 litres of cola in the fridge, then it will take 4x as much electricity as it would if the bottle was only 500ml. This assumes both bottles are the same temperature - if your fridge is set to 5°c and the 2 litre bottle is 10°c and the 500ml bottle is 25°c then each would take the same amount of energy to cool.

The cost of cooling is primary a function of thermal mass.

The mass of air is negligible. It's often thought that top-loading fridges are "more efficient" than those with a regular door, because "when you open the door, all the air rushes out". But if 40 litres of air rush out when you open the door then that's 51g of mass, or the equivalent of 1/6 of a can of soda.

Your fridge is top-loading anyway, so the air isn't "rushing out" - a tiny amount may seep out around the edges of the seal, but it's not significant in any way. You will see more benefit from stuffing some extra celotex in any empty voids underneath the worktop.

I would guess that corian might be more conductive than plywood, so that might explain it. You could make a new lid by routing it out and filling it with celotex, but the top of my fridge is 2" thick anyway - I assume that's all celotex or (less efficient) expanded polystyrene.

I've highlighted one section that I find difficult to agree with. Why ? The matter is also governed by surface area of the item being heated or cooled. Your example is flawed because the larger volume item is not of same multiple in surface area. It is significantly less in fact. It then relies on thermal conductivity inside the item.
If the 2L is split up into separate 500mL and with sufficient airflow round them - then in fact cooling time is not 4x that of a single 500mL ..... its significantly less.

I know this because of many years of cooling samples in my labs for tests ... we always divided up the volume and made sure each had airflow around ... otherwise we would be waiting extreme time.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I've highlighted one section that I find difficult to agree with. Why ? The matter is also governed by surface area of the item being heated or cooled. Your example is flawed because the larger volume item is not of same multiple in surface area. It is significantly less in fact. It then relies on thermal conductivity inside the item.
If the 2L is split up into separate 500mL and with sufficient airflow round them - then in fact cooling time is not 4x that of a single 500mL ..... its significantly less.

I know this because of many years of cooling samples in my labs for tests ... we always divided up the volume and made sure each had airflow around ... otherwise we would be waiting extreme time.

True to a degree but boat fridges do not have air circulation they rely on conduction and a little convection and whilst surface area will have an effect it will be relatively small as there will be significant conduction and heat flow within the body of the bottle in KKs example.

 

[Refueler]

True to a degree but boat fridges do not have air circulation they rely on conduction and a little convection and whilst surface area will have an effect it will be relatively small as there will be significant conduction and heat flow within the body of the bottle in KKs example.

The air in the fridge is not moved by outside influence - its by temp variation itself within the fridge. Lab gear is same .. unless you are going for the supercooling systems ... another complete story.
I was just illustrating why it is not 4x or whatever multiple.

Also heat transfer / variation is quicker in air than it is in liquid.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The air in the fridge is not moved by outside influence - its by temp variation itself within the fridge. Lab gear is same .. unless you are going for the supercooling systems ... another complete story.
I was just illustrating why it is not 4x or whatever multiple.

Also heat transfer / variation is quicker in air than it is in liquid.

In the small confines of a loaded fridge there won't be a lot of convection, if it isn't loaded you have other things to worry about. I am pretty adept at sucking eggs.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Also heat transfer / variation is quicker in air than it is in liquid.

Its really the other way round

Heat transfer in ligiid is much greater in a liquid than in air

As the cooling effect of a person in water than in air

 

[Refueler]

Its really the other way round

Heat transfer in ligiid is much greater in a liquid than in air

As the cooling effect of a person in water than in air

You are confusing heat transfer based on the water being replaced around a body in the water ... shall we use a term as 'Water Chill' instead of Wind Chill ?

The table is based on moving medium - not static. Its also affected by heat retention by the medium .. why radiators use liquid - not because of speed of heating up - but because they retain heat longer ....

Anyway - it does not change fact that 4 500ml bottles separated in the fridge will cool faster than a single large 2l bottle... purely based on the surface area of the smaller bottles .. added together is greater than the single larger

 

[Caladh]

You are confusing heat transfer based on the water being replaced around a body in the water ... shall we use a term as 'Water Chill' instead of Wind Chill ?

The table is based on moving medium - not static. Its also affected by heat retention by the medium .. why radiators use liquid - not because of speed of heating up - but because they retain heat longer ....

Anyway - it does not change fact that 4 500ml bottles separated in the fridge will cool faster than a single large 2l bottle... purely based on the surface area of the smaller bottles .. added together is greater than the single larger

Hey guys thanks very much for the science however flawed or true it is!!

 

[Refueler]

Hey guys thanks very much for the science however flawed or true it is!!

Nay worries matey ...

 

[MontyMariner]

Hey guys thanks very much for the science however flawed or true it is!!

and not much to do with fridge lid construction

 

[rogerthebodger]

You are confusing heat transfer based on the water being replaced around a body in the water ... shall we use a term as 'Water Chill' instead of Wind Chill ?

The table is based on moving medium - not static. Its also affected by heat retention by the medium .. why radiators use liquid - not because of speed of heating up - but because they retain heat longer ....

Anyway - it does not change fact that 4 500ml bottles separated in the fridge will cool faster than a single large 2l bottle... purely based on the surface area of the smaller bottles .. added together is greater than the single larger

Its all about what type of heat transfer you are talking about convection , conduction or radiation

Convection. Convective heat transfer is the transfer of heat between two bodies by currents of moving gas or fluid. In free convection, air or water moves away from the heated body as the warm air or water rises and is replaced by a cooler parcel of air or water.

Conduction heat transfer is the transfer of heat through matter (i.e., solids, liquids, or gases) without bulk motion of the matter. In another ward, conduction is the transfer of energy from the more energetic to less energetic particles of a substance due to interaction between the particles.

You need to understand the different types of heat transfer.

Heat is always transferred from the warn body to the cooler body

The more interfaces between the hot and cool body reduced the amount of heat transferred and the greater the temperature difference th greater the rate of the heat transferred

 

[Refueler]

Its all about what type of heat transfer you are talking about convection , conduction or radiation

Convection. Convective heat transfer is the transfer of heat between two bodies by currents of moving gas or fluid. In free convection, air or water moves away from the heated body as the warm air or water rises and is replaced by a cooler parcel of air or water.

Conduction heat transfer is the transfer of heat through matter (i.e., solids, liquids, or gases) without bulk motion of the matter. In another ward, conduction is the transfer of energy from the more energetic to less energetic particles of a substance due to interaction between the particles.

You need to understand the different types of heat transfer.

Heat is always transferred from the warn body to the cooler body

The more interfaces between the hot and cool body reduced the amount of heat transferred and the greater the temperature difference th greater the rate of the heat transferred

You giving me a lecture on the forms of heat transfer ???????

Have you failed to read my posts .... do you think creating / owning / running labs that I need your lecture ??

That's a laugh !! C'mon Roger ....