To re-engine or not.... and if so when? Opiniions please

[Laurin]

BTW, I didn't mean a cabin each for the children - until they get old enough to notice and worry about the difference (if of opposite sexes) then they can share. I was thinking that a cabin separate from the adults was essential, though!

To be honest I didn't think you meant a cabin for each child but it was something on the impossible wish list. What we have is a good compromise. Thanks for your replies, guess this has now drifted into a "what size boat debate" rather than one about engines.

 

[lw395]

When it comes to selling the boat, a year old engine is 'new', but a five year old engine is more of a variable. When it gets to ten.... well plenty of ten year old engines get swapped out it seems.
So if you might keep the boat five years, delaying the engine swap might make sense.
But not if the existing one is grief.
It's a judgement, a bit like guessing whether you will upsize in a few years.

 

[ianj99]

well plenty of ten year old engines get swapped out it seems..

This is what I can't understand.
There are penty of motor vehicles are on our roads having done way more hours running than a leisure boat's engine, without having to be re-engined.

In most cases, I suspect that the basic engine will be still be serviceable, but the ancilliaries may need updating due to the harsher environment.

 

[Tranona]

Partly that, but usually it is lack of use that kills them - or rather the pattern of use. Yes, the basic engine will usually be fine. What goes (as the OP is discovering) is things like exhausts and cooling which do not take kindly to being used in short spurts a few times a year and left the rest of the time full of part burnt fuel, dirty oil and corrosive salt water. You also have to recognise that many of these engines are 30 and 40 years old, were never made in large volumes and spares have become very expensive or unobtainable.

This difficulty with spare parts is not confined to marine engines. Try getting spares for example for the 1960's 85 bore Ford engines which were made in the millions but have just about disappeared.

 

[snooks]

I'm in the process of re-engining at the moment, at times it's felt like juggling water!

Allow around £7-8K for all the bits inc engine/shaft/sterngland/prop (+£1k for a fancy one) rope cutter, exhaust, seacocks, soundproofing etc etc etc) and £2-3K for someone else to fit them.

There was nothing wrong with out engine when we took it out, except for a slight oil leak, but in the previous two year we'd replaced: the head gasket, cylinder head, rocker shaft, thermostat, exhaust injection bend thingy (name escapes me) and in the end we'd hold our breath and cross our fingers when we'd reach for the key. For the past season it almost worked faultlessly, but no matter how reliable it was, there was always a worry at the back of my mind that it wouldn't start or something else was going to break. With the arrival of our daughter I didn't want to take any more risks of it breaking down.

we love our boat and can't see ourselves changing her any time soon so we took the plunge.

I wanted to save money and do as much myself, in hindsight it's cost me more in taking days off and my time than it would have cost me in money. But hey ho, I have more money in my pocket for things like a fancy prop and coppercoat.

My advice would be to live with your boat/engine for this season, and if you decide to change......before you haul out, go to a boatshow and have a look at what engines fit and the access you have, get a boatshow deal on a new engine, choose a yard to lift out where the engine dealer is and get them to do it on site at the asap before the new year, because come this time next year everyone will want a bit of your engineer.

 

[GrahamM376]

This difficulty with spare parts is not confined to marine engines. Try getting spares for example for the 1960's 85 bore Ford engines which were made in the millions but have just about disappeared.

It's not just availability of spares, it's the cost as Snooks says. A new Volvo gearbox for a Centaur or Berwick (if you can still get one) will cost almost as much as a complete engine and gearbox of another modern make. When I rebuilt one many years ago, the cone clutches alone were around £500 each!

 

[Tranona]

Little different with modern engines, having recently replaced a Volvo saildrive. Yesterday stripped the antisyphon valve for cleaning. Thought I might replace the little diaphragm and washer as it is a pig to get at. £40+VAT for a "repair kit"! - but you can get the two bits from Keypart for £3.60. The old bits enjoyed a night in a tub of vinegar and came out spotless. Just off to put it back together.

 

[ianj99]

Partly that, but usually it is lack of use that kills them - or rather the pattern of use. Yes, the basic engine will usually be fine. What goes (as the OP is discovering) is things like exhausts and cooling which do not take kindly to being used in short spurts a few times a year and left the rest of the time full of part burnt fuel, dirty oil and corrosive salt water. You also have to recognise that many of these engines are 30 and 40 years old, were never made in large volumes and spares have become very expensive or unobtainable.

This difficulty with spare parts is not confined to marine engines. Try getting spares for example for the 1960's 85 bore Ford engines which were made in the millions but have just about disappeared.

I agree so you need to weigh up the cost of overhaul versus cost of a re-engine, as well as taking into account how long you will keep the boat for or the effect on the resale value if you don't re-engine and the availability of spares.

The only parts I am having a problem getting hold for my 4108 are the injector pipes.
The previous owners had so many starting problems with repeated bleeding being needed that the existing ends are worn and although not currently leaking, did take a major effort on the spanner to stop them dribbling.

(they never did find the causes of air getting in, which turned out to be a loose fitting at the tank and leaking seals on the injector return pipe)

 

[Avocet]

...You also have to recognise that many of these engines are 30 and 40 years old, were never made in large volumes and spares have become very expensive or unobtainable...

I agree entirely. We have a 23 year old raw water cooled BMW D12 and I know that sooner or later, the seawater will corrode through the cylinder head and it will be scrap. It won't matter how good the rest of it is. They were never a popular engine (despite having some good features)! By contrast, I have a 22 year old car engine and it's in rude health. Even relatively obscure car engines were made in such huge numbers compared to obscure boat engines, that I am in no immediate danger of running out of spares.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

This is what I can't understand.
There are penty of motor vehicles are on our roads having done way more hours running than a leisure boat's engine, without having to be re-engined.

In most cases, I suspect that the basic engine will be still be serviceable, but the ancilliaries may need updating due to the harsher environment.

This is a point that seems to be important. I suspect that most marine diesels are perfectly capable of being kept going indefinitely, or at least to the point where the cylinders (if unlined) become irretrievably worn. In fact, the tutor on our diesel maintenance course said as much! I think the real problems that limit the life of a marine diesel are:

1. Poor maintenance caused by difficulty of access
2. Corrosion
3. Difficulty in carrying out major work (e.g. bottom end rebuild) because of difficult access
4. Dirty or otherwise contaminated fuel causing excessive wear in injectors or injector pump
5. Spare parts becoming unavailable
6. Spare parts excessively costly

For example, on my Moody 31, it is difficult to replace the engine anode because of it's location. It means dismantling the alternator to get at it, and even then it is a bit difficult. So, what should be an annual straightforward maintenance task gets put off until more major work is being carried out.

The Volvo 2003 in Capricious is reputed to be capable of being rebuilt indefinitely, or at least until the engine block (which is a really heavy casting!) gets impossibly corroded! But in practice, the effort of taking it out of the boat to carry out really major work, coupled with the likely cost of spare parts, is such that it would probably be preferable to replace the engine if it were being removed from the boat. But in principle, the engine can be rebuilt to "as new" condition, and the workshop manual describes the process.

 

[Tranona]

I agree so you need to weigh up the cost of overhaul versus cost of a re-engine, as well as taking into account how long you will keep the boat for or the effect on the resale value if you don't re-engine and the availability of spares.

The only parts I am having a problem getting hold for my 4108 are the injector pipes.
The previous owners had so many starting problems with repeated bleeding being needed that the existing ends are worn and although not currently leaking, did take a major effort on the spanner to stop them dribbling.

(they never did find the causes of air getting in, which turned out to be a loose fitting at the tank and leaking seals on the injector return pipe)

You are "lucky" in the sense that your Perkins was made in the 10's of thousands over many years for a huge range of applications, as opposed to the Volvo which was made in a few hundred for marine use only.

Now that many engines are based on high volume industrial units perhaps the future will be different, although in my experience it is not the high volume industrial bits that give the problems but the marine bits which are used in maybe 5% (only a guess) of the engines produced by the likes of Kubota, Mitsubishi, Perkins Shimaru etc.

 

[perignon]

RE Engine

Dont waste a penny on the 30 year old engine. A Beta or Nanni would suit you perfectly. Be prepared to negotiate the price and you will be pleased with the result. The move away from Volvo will bring its own benefits. Been there and done that.