Time for me to get another boat!

[Deleted User YDKXO]

A
Who knows where the fx rate will go, but I'm inclined to hedge my bets and buy decent amounts of Euros now.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm no expert but it seems to me that the market has priced in an interest rate rise in the UK and if there is no sign of it happening soon, then Sterling could falter. Also I'm not convinced that the UK economy's current growth is sustainable given what's happening elsewhere in the world. Lastly, if it looks like the UK is going to vote to leave the EU, Sterling is going to get a right kicking. Don't think you'll go far wrong buying Euros right now

 

[TwoHooter]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

I think what MapisM and others are saying is that it depends entirely on the type of boat and the use it has had. A displacement trawler, with the correct transmission ratios and propeller, and a history of doing 7 - 8 knots for hundreds of hours at a time (and with records of correct maintenance) is MORE valuable than the equivalent boat with low hours which has sat around in marinas most of its life with infrequent short weekend trips. There was lengthy discussion about this on the Nordhavn Owners and Dreamers forums not so long ago, with some very experienced people confirming the above is correct. The hours on our boat when we bought it were Main (Lugger) 1750, Genset(Northern Lights) 580, Wing (Yanmar) 16! The only one I was really worried about was the Yanmar, but the only thing that we have had to replace so far is the ten year old mixing elbow which is exactly what you would expect on those things. I will be running it at least one hour at operating temperature every time we go out.

The typical planing boat has high revving highly-stressed engines and they are a completely different story, more like aircraft engines in some ways. In aviation it's normal to value the airframe, avionics and engine/s separately. When it comes to the engine/s a typical piston engine has about 2,000 hours life before rebuild and it's quite normal for buyers to price the engine according to the hours it's got left. A £50,000 rebuild budget puts £25 an hour on the engine and the curve is almost linear. If I was buying a planing boat I'd be thinking along those lines - except I wouldn't have a clue how many hours the life is likely to be.

 

[petem]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

Getting back on topic. If replacing tri data and plotter, is it a no brainer to go with Raymarine or would another brand be better and / or better value? Note that I'm a bit anal about these things so naturally favour Raymarine.

 

[Whitelighter]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

For me yes, but plenty of people like Garmin

 

[benjenbav]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

Getting back on topic. If replacing tri data and plotter, is it a no brainer to go with Raymarine or would another brand be better and / or better value? Note that I'm a bit anal about these things so naturally favour Raymarine.

Electronics brands all suck you in to their world so that the opportunity of mixing and matching isn't an option. If you like Raymarine then why not?

I can relate to your 50-75 engine hours per year maxim which to me represents a couple of hours most weekends in the summer and a couple of hours per month in the winter. Add an annual maintenance regime and it should be good for a long time.

 

[petem]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

The boat has a small and old bracket mounted Garmin plotter so I'm tempted to do a like for like replacement with the current equivalent model and also replace the original radio with a Garmin unit and hook them up together. I think that's doable for £1k or so.

 

[Whitelighter]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

The boat has a small and old bracket mounted Garmin plotter so I'm tempted to do a like for like replacement with the current equivalent model and also replace the original radio with a Garmin unit and hook them up together. I think that's doable for £1k or so.

Easily doable for a £1000. Harder if you want the latest wiz bang kit but if you accept a model one Gen down (which are much newer than the boat and perfectly serviceable) then you can do it for sure. the question is weather you make it possible at a later date to fit radar or if you'd be happy with standalone GPS/Mapping

From memory there isn't much room on the T30 dash so I think you'll be limited to a 7" screen. If you go for a touch screen interface then you should get a bigger screen like for like.

Something like this GPSMap 620 would be good http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garmin-GP...409678?hash=item235d5fb8ce:g:~yoAAOSwjVVV1f2u

Or a bit bigger (and more £££) something like this with buttons http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garmin-Ec...070980?hash=item5d5aaa5584:g:zc8AAOSwHnFVnIej though dash space may be the limiting factor

 

[petem]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

Might have to be portrait so something more like this http://www.force4.co.uk/department/electronics/gps/chartplotters/garmin-gpsmap-557.html#.VlHCysvFJAg

 

[petem]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

What I call selling the boating lifestyle....

1996 Princess V40 for £56k.

 

[MapisM]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

What I call selling the boating lifestyle....

Yeah, reminds me of a very similar pic I took in Croatia, back in my sportcruiser days, with a couple of OBs on the bow.
I refrain to post it because one of them was Ms.MM, and even if she normally doesn't lurk around here, I'd rather not risk having to cook myself for a week! :ambivalence:

Otoh, this one (taken just a few years later) also gives an idea of the Croatian boating style, where swimsuits are rather the exception than the norm!

PS: taken in Levrnaka Bay, Kornati archipelago.
Can't tell for sure if the "Jezina Mladen" restaurant (just out of the pic, on the right side) is still there, but it's one of the very few I really enjoyed.
They even had a small sea water pool where they kept live lobsters!

 

[petem]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

We better stop there before we get banned!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

We better stop there before we get banned!

Or worse! Mapism could get himself arrested and locked up for taking a photo like that in the UK these days!

 

[MapisM]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

Phew! Luckily, the only pic that I admitted to have taken myself is the other one that I didn't publish...

 

[Dick Atcherley]

Re: Effect of engine hours on value

In terms of chartplotters, I stuck one of these into my boat, and think that it's the canine's clackers

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GARMIN-GP...063401?hash=item4884f17aa9:g:uQwAAMXQEgpTEIZ-

 

[petem]

It's been a couple of months, so I thought an update was in order.

To set the scene, its worth a quick read of this link http://britishmarine.co.uk/What-We-Do/Legal-and-Finance/VAT, in particular "2. What proof is required for VAT Paid Status?". I'd also like to remind everyone that I'm a humble salaried employee so unfortunately my budget has a hard cap.

The first boat I viewed was a Spanish Targa 30 and you can see my comments earlier in this thread (post #117).

I then decided to look at another Spanish T30 that is on the market for a very reasonable €53k (inc VAT). Due to it being on the Atlantic coast the visit had to be an overnighter. Unfortunately I missed my connecting flight so had to view the boat in the dark (far from ideal). From what I could see the boat was very sound with glossy gelcoat. The spec was a bit basic, no bowthruster, no A/P, no A/C. It did have davits and a teak cockpit. Allegedly it had full history but nothing to prove this and the hour meters were not displaying. The defect list wasn't too long; needed new teak for the bathing platform and the drives looked a bit manky. It also had a rather big ripple in the hull (from new I suspect) that would have annoyed me. The boat was on the Spanish register so VAT was paid but there were no invoices to prove it. In other words there were no "Primary Documents" to prove "VAT Paid Status". The plan for this boat was to use it for a season then flip it back in the UK. I decided that despite the low price this was going to be too much hassle so I bailed. If anyone is interested then I'm pretty certain there's £10k+ to be made by importing this particular boat back to the UK if someone can be bothered.

Last weekend I viewed another Spanish T30, a Cranchi Zaffiro 34, and a 2005 T34 (KAD300). The T30 was poorer than the one in #117 so was rejected (looked like the rear quarters had nearly been pulled off). I didn't like the Cranchi at all. the T34 was very nice but was right at the top of my budget (not helped by the recent slide of the £ against the €). The issue with this boat was that its Swiss owned and not VAT paid. The seller will pay the VAT (and I would get proof) but there's no evidence that its ever been out of the EU so there is a theoretical VAT charge against the boat in the event that the authorities investigate it. I'd be willing to take the risk but am concerned that this situation may put off buyers when I come to move the boat on. Coupled with the fact that this T34 has a very basic spec (no A/P, no nav gear whatsoever, no A/C, no davits) I declined it.

So I'm no even more determined that my next boat will be a MK2 T34. Furthermore if people are asking €90k for low hour 2005 examples I should be able to get a 2002/3 one for €85k. Going forward, I've got a few enquiries to see if any of the T34's currently for sale might be available for a lower price. There is a cheap white T34 in La Rochelle. I don't mind white boats in the Med but I know others (i.e. Jimmy The Builder) are a bit sniffy about them. If anyone lives close by perhaps they could take a look at it for me (save me another two day trip)? If I don't find anything this winter then I'll wait until next Autumn.

Pete

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I don't mind white boats in the Med but I know others (i.e. Jimmy The Builder) are a bit sniffy about them.

Er, wtf are you talking about? I have never said that; the opposite, if anything.

 

[petem]

Er, wtf are you talking about? I have never said that; the opposite, if anything.

I'm sure you made some derogatory comment about white hulled boats! Apologies if you didn't. Actually, if I remember correctly the issue with that La Rochelle boat was that the broker didn't speak any English and also that its a bitch to get to in the winter.

Interestingly, of all the boats that were available when I started looking four months ago, only one has sold.

 

[Hurricane]

Er, wtf are you talking about? I have never said that; the opposite, if anything.

"Language Timothy"!!!

White vs coloured.
Coloured gelcoat definitely has two main problems.
1. It gets hot in the sun - thus the inside of the boat will be hotter.
2. All coloured gelcoats fade - TBF though Fairline colours seem to fade less than others.
I'm sure that an old white boat would look better than an old coloured boat.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

"Language Timothy"!!!

White vs coloured.
Coloured gelcoat definitely has two main problems.
1. It gets hot in the sun - thus the inside of the boat will be hotter.
2. All coloured gelcoats fade - TBF though Fairline colours seem to fade less than others.
I'm sure that an old white boat would look better than an old coloured boat.

Sorry Dad!

Completely agree with you on both points. All other things being equal, I'd prefer a white hull to a blue hull, not just for the Med, but generally. In the Med the issue is with the sun, obvs, but even at home in the UK on a conventional finger berth every year there would be some fender scratching that needed to be polished out. Ironically you don't have that problem when Med-mooring because the fenders mostly sit up on the rubbing strake, not against the gelcoat.

However there's a specific issue with Targas of the age that Pete's looking at which is that imho they just *look* (ie not function) better with the blue hull, and because of that, virtually all of them had a blue hull from the factory. The consequence of this is that most buyers expect the boat to have a blue hull, and that has to be a consideration if you're buying in Europe with a view to selling on quickly for a profit in the UK, for example. I remember when I was buying my T40 (now six years ago, amazingly) that there was a white-hull T40 that was just stuck on the market; it was the cheapest T40 by miles and it just wouldn't sell, there was nothing spec-wise wrong with it, it was just that it had a white hull.

For myself, next time around I'll get a white-hulled boat for sure; I think the bigger Targas look better in white (T47, T52, first generationT62) and all of the Princess V-class boats.

 

[John100156]

I had my blue hulled T34 in SCM for a couple of years before I bought the F43; great boat and I do think they look really good with the blue hull when polished, they just look right with the blue hull. You generally have to lift more frequently in the Med, well where we are, so its fairly easy to keep the hull waxed and polished and in good shape.

Its true fender rub is more noticeable, we have Wlacon finger berths so you still need to set them low, socks didn't help much but this was not a major issue.

A big bonus for the T34 in SCM was that you could bring the legs up and clean all four props from the bathing platform, needed frequently in summer! Nice hop over from SCM to Mallorca though in favourable conditions - I do miss her sometimes.

Make certain you have AC fitted though, it was hell in the first season in peak summer months particularly when the mozzies were out and you had to go below at dusk for a while......