Time for me to get another boat!

petem

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I agree Deleted User

AOTBE, yes of course the hours would be a factor but its all about weighting of all the different factors, year, extras, maintenance history, colour etc. But I suspect we're all largely in the same place.

Anyhow, the likely difference we're talking here (between 600 and 800 hours on a 14 year old boat is not really material).

But I would bet that JFM's and MYAG's boats, both with commendably high hours are also the best kept.
 

petem

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I'd also like to suggest that you can add legitimacy to a boat. Let's say I buy a boat with little documented history but I get it surveyed and the survey tallies with the alleged good upkeep of the boat. I get new hour counters and get it properly surveyed by a VP dealer and start building history. I then sell it through a reputable dealer back in the UK, perfectly presented and photographed. Hell, it could even be described as being owned by "Mr Fairline" :). Show the new buyer the survey and get up to date oil samples done.

How relevant is the 'ancient' history?
 

jfm

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Deleted User's comments were very much AOTBE. If the low hours boat is tatty, wrong colour, lying Vanuatu then of course it is worth less. But Deleted User was clear that he was commenting on a AOTBE footing

But I would bet that JFM's and MYAG's boats, both with commendably high hours are also the best kept.
Haha thanks for the compliment but I get nowhere near MYAG's hours. He is the king of hourage on this forum:encouragement:. My previous s78 was born same day as MYAG's Y80 (both were exhibited at LIBS2011) and if I add together my hours on that boat and my subsequent (current) boat I get nowhere near MYAG's hours. I would be at 800 hours on each genset; MYAG has 8,000 on each one. Chapeau to him! I don't know his engine hours but I'm at a mere 720hrs both boats combined
 

scubaman

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Now that is a shame. Even a tight ar5e like me wouldn't push the throttles forward to get somewhere quicker at lower hours!

It is sad I know, but can't help it. Doesn't stop me from pootling but it's a thought in the back of my mind when planning a cruise.

Edit: all the best with the boat hunt, btw :encouragement:
 
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Deleted User YDKXO

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Haha thanks for the compliment but I get nowhere near MYAG's hours. He is the king of hourage on this forum:encouragement:. My previous s78 was born same day as MYAG's Y80 (both were exhibited at LIBS2011) and if I add together my hours on that boat and my subsequent (current) boat I get nowhere near MYAG's hours. I would be at 800 hours on each genset; MYAG has 8,000 on each one. Chapeau to him! I don't know his engine hours but I'm at a mere 720hrs both boats combined

To be honest I think both your boat and MYAG's boat show the value of having crew because they're both spotless despite the heavy use you both put them to. Thats another thing I've noticed on my secondhand boat buying travels; you can really tell which boats have had a full time crew
 

Portofino

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I've got an intermittent VDO tachometer on the port engine .If its damp LCD display dims or seemingly goes out ( the rev functions ok ) .
If I tap it it comes back .,or as Pete says dry it ( an hour or so of Med sun )
Point is this it does not forget -match,s the Stb hours , when it comes back on .
So just because the LCD is not " displaying " as such - the widget is still recording the hours it just that you are not seeing it .
So perhaps as Pete says if he can get them working ------- true hrs will be shown .
I agree 50-75 hrs for an open sports cruiser is as good number to extrapolate hours / annum
I can,t really imagine a F targa 34 or whatever doing 100' s hrs /year - every year -when it's seemingly wintered in a hanger .
Piicked my sports cruiser up 2003 engines with 630 hrs 12/12 ago currently has 696 on = 66 this season .-90% at speed -
JFM can confirm when I overtook him heading towards Viillfrance -he's was very near 30 knots when I shot passed and crossed his bows at 36 knots with revs to spare :)

No SH ,paper work for reasons outlined in an other thread re buying in Italy .Its not missed a beat .Some times you just have to take a punt.
More important, some engines have time services due or hours dependant services .A quick google of that engine faults -soon unearths these ,
Eg with Vp kad 44 ,300. -tappets every 200 hrs ,coolers every 5 years , turbos last 5-7 years -exhaust elbows rust etc .
MAN ,s MTU ,s ( share the blocks same foundry ) tappets every 1000 hrs .
V modals crank damper adjust every xyz - moot point with Bart .
So it's kinda important that this sort of stuff has been done -rarther than dwell on damp LCD ,s
I hope it all works out for Mr Fairline :cool:
 

MapisM

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(between 600 and 800 hours on a 14 year old boat is not really material)
Absolutely.
The "engine hours vs. boat value" debate is surely up there with "anchor types" and other classics, among our most done to death topics, I reckon. :D

But let me mention one example: recently, the Flanders decided to sell Egret, the Nordhavn 46 that carried them round the horns.
No idea about the total hours they clocked, but my guess is that all of the last 4 digits were "not really material", in this case...!
And funnily enough, the boat was sold PDQ.
Now, obviously, the folks interested in these boats, where the difference between Egret and another identical boat used just for coastal hopping can be measured in tens of thousands of hours, know that engine hours are not as relevant as most pleasure boaters believe.

I'm not denying that in the normal pleasure boat market the engine hours affect the resale value - that's a fact.
Just saying that the logic behind such fact is debatable to say the least.
 

longjohnsilver

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Pete, if buying in Euro zone I'd be looking at buying a few Euros sometime soon, I just got €1.424, been going up quite well over past few weeks. Should help to make your boat cheaper still!
 
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Deleted User YDKXO

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But let me mention one example: recently, the Flanders decided to sell Egret, the Nordhavn 46 that carried them round the horns.
No idea about the total hours they clocked, but my guess is that all of the last 4 digits were "not really material", in this case...!
And funnily enough, the boat was sold PDQ.
Maybe it was at the right price to reflect its hours? Self evidently engine hours are less important for D boats with low revving under stressed engines whose wear life is measured in tens of thousands of hours rather than thousands. Once again I ask would you pay the same money for the Flanders N46 with 20,000 hours or whatever compared to a N46 with 5,000 hrs?
 

MapisM

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Not sure about Egret specifically, but I've yet to come across a long range cruiser where the asking price (or also the actual selling price, for that matter) was significantly affected by the engine hours.
Particularly over the Pond, where the market for these vessels is somewhat larger, it seems to me that "tried and tested", obviously together with "properly maintained", are much more appealing selling points, compared to low engine hours.
In fact, I came across a few brokers dealing specifically with these boats, and they are always somewhat embarrassed when dealing with particularly low hours boats, go figure!

That said, the answer to your last question is pretty obvious, but it's the 100% AOTBE assumption that is purely theoretical.
I doubt that two completely identical vessels, equipped and maintained exactly in the same way (whose only difference is in the engine hours) even exist - let alone come across them during a boat search!
So, realistically, the question is how much value are you willing to place on low engine hours vs. other factors.
To some extent, it's an each to their own thing of course - I'm sure that the better half of some of us could tip the balance in favour of an higher hours boat just because of some scatter cushions or whatever...! :D
'Fiuaskme, in petem boots, just seeing some slightly better maintained outdrives in an 800 hours boat would be sufficient for me to choose her over the 600 hours one.
And that's the first example that pops to my mind, but I could make dozens of others...
 

Hurricane

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Pete, if buying in Euro zone I'd be looking at buying a few Euros sometime soon, I just got €1.424, been going up quite well over past few weeks. Should help to make your boat cheaper still!

It is only at the rate it was when we started in the Med - 9 years ago when we paid for our berth.
Everything is relative
I agree, though - it is a good rate at the moment.
As long as the UK economy sticks to the current regime, I cant see how the Euro Zone can get any better - with Greece and Portugal (maybe even Spain and Italy) going the way they are and all the Quantitative Easing that they are doing - I just can't see the Euro getting any better - and even falling further soon.
But I'm no economist.
 
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Deleted User YDKXO

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Not sure about Egret specifically, but I've yet to come across a long range cruiser where the asking price (or also the actual selling price, for that matter) was significantly affected by the engine hours.
Particularly over the Pond, where the market for these vessels is somewhat larger, it seems to me that "tried and tested", obviously together with "properly maintained", are much more appealing selling points, compared to low engine hours.
In fact, I came across a few brokers dealing specifically with these boats, and they are always somewhat embarrassed when dealing with particularly low hours boats, go figure!

That said, the answer to your last question is pretty obvious, but it's the 100% AOTBE assumption that is purely theoretical.
I doubt that two completely identical vessels, equipped and maintained exactly in the same way (whose only difference is in the engine hours) even exist - let alone come across them during a boat search!
So, realistically, the question is how much value are you willing to place on low engine hours vs. other factors.
To some extent, it's an each to their own thing of course - I'm sure that the better half of some of us could tip the balance in favour of an higher hours boat just because of some scatter cushions or whatever...! :D
'Fiuaskme, in petem boots, just seeing some slightly better maintained outdrives in an 800 hours boat would be sufficient for me to choose her over the 600 hours one.
And that's the first example that pops to my mind, but I could make dozens of others...
Well the original discussion point was whether high hours boats are worth less. Of course we can all point to instances where high hours boats have sold well or we can all point to high hours boats that are in first class condition. Sorry to keep labouring this point but, in general terms, hours do matter and they do affect the value of the boat and as another poster pointed out, if hours didn't matter, why do brokers quote hours in their promotional material and why do they highlight the fact that a boat is low hours when they are selling it? Its not for no reason. Conversely as well, they often 'forget' to state the hours of a high hours boat in their promotional material as well
 
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Deleted User YDKXO

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Everything is relative
Indeed it is. Everybody keeps talking about the 'strength' of Sterling against the Euro but now it is only back to roughly where it was before the recession started at the back end of 2007 and not forgetting the fact that in the past it did briefly touch €1.70/£
 

MapisM

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Its not for no reason.
Well, obviously also Guinness has good reasons to tell us that their beer is good for us! :D
Though we are actually agreeing, sort of - see my post #308:
I'm not denying that in the normal pleasure boat market the engine hours affect the resale value - that's a fact.
Just saying that the logic behind such fact is debatable to say the least.
 

longjohnsilver

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Indeed it is. Everybody keeps talking about the 'strength' of Sterling against the Euro but now it is only back to roughly where it was before the recession started at the back end of 2007 and not forgetting the fact that in the past it did briefly touch €1.70/£

All true Mike, but boats/houses in the Eurozone are now much cheaper than say 8 years ago, so imho very good value with the current exchange rate.
Who knows where the fx rate will go, but I'm inclined to hedge my bets and buy decent amounts of Euros now.
 
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