Tides marine preventive seal replacement ?

[BartW]

In spring 2018 the old stuffing box shaft seals have been replaced on Blue Angel by new Tides marine Sureseal,
after the boat was on the dry all winter, one seal started dripping when the boat was launched back in the water,
the dripping was only very slight, and we have spare seals in a canister on the shafts, so we continued our summer with one dripping seal,
there was a small hope that the seal was dry, and would stop dripping after a while, but it didn't.

now during winter lift out we will replace that seal,
would it be advised to also replace the seal (from 2018) on the other shaft preventively, or just keep it, until it starts dripping ?

remember, each shaft carries 2 spare seals and they can be replaced without lifting the boat.

 

[John100156]

I have the same setup fitted in 2021.

If you have spares on the shafts, I would leave the good one alone for now for the reason you state.

I had one drip when new, but it did seal once bedded in. Sort of, if its not broke don’t try to fix it.

When you get down to one, it’s time to change them all I reckon and fit new spares but nothing wrong with doing them all at the same time now and could prove to be more economical in the long run..! Whatever makes you feel most comfortable.

 

[DAW]

I’ve had Tides Marine seals on my last three boats, including the current one and have occasionally experienced intermittent leaks when the boat is in use. No leaks when at rest, but they can drip slightly when in use, particularly when first installed.

I’ve found that the condition of the surface of the shaft is very important and also the position of the seal Itself on the shaft can make a difference. I’ve also found that it really helps to maintain a good watertight seal if you rotate the shafts regularly when the boat is not in use. They don’t seem to like being left in the same position for extended periods. As mentioned above, they do seem to settle in with time and regular use.

I wouldn’t change a seal that‘s not causing you any problems, unless it’s been in place for quite a while, on the basis that if it’s not broken don’t try to fix it. Also, it’s always better to have two spares remaining rather than one.

 

[Hurricane]

I've had my troubles with Tides Seals.
Thankfully, I bought complete sets of spare seals.
About 8 years ago, our starboard seal started leaking whilst we were away in Mallorca.
Rather than do it myself, we popped in to Portals and I watched a professional guy change the seal for me so that next time I would have the confidence to do it on my own.
On our boat, Princess installed a seal within the Tides housing but also added two extra spare seals on the shafts.
So at that time, I was down to one working and one spare.
What I didn't realise was that the "professional" had damaged the seal housing.

We ran like that until last autumn when the same seal started to leak again - badly.
I was happy to change it whilst the boat was in the water but I thought it better not to be at anchor.
We were in Ibiza and there wasn't much space in marinas.
We settled for a berth in San Antonio.
I would like to have had the "backup" of a travel hoist but theirs isn't big enough.
Anyway, the leak was bad enough to deal with straight away
God only knows what we would have done if there had been a problem.

So we set about changing the seal - just like I had watched before.
It was only then, that we realised that the seal housing had been damaged - the outer rings literally fell apart when we released the old seal.
After about 4 hours (4 of us), we managed to re-assemble the outer ring and the new seal.
The outer ring's main job is to push the new seal in place so as I gradually tightened the screws, the water stopped coming in.
That was a very satisfying moment!!
My thanks to @timbad who helped with the fiasco.
Our two SWMBOs took the responsibility of keeping the water level down using a Wet Vac (great bit of kit).
In fact, at no point did the water level rise enough to flood more than one small isolated area of the bilge.

Whilst out in the boatyard this year a completely new seal was fitted and that shaft is now completely drip free.
But I did have some extra spare seals and carriers so on that shaft we now have one seal in and working with three spares on the shaft if required.
Hopefully by being over cautious, that seal will never need replacing again!!!

So message to Bart is that just having one spare is probably good enough - we ran like that for about 5 years.
And, in the end (ignoring our other problem) that spare seal was good when it was actually needed.

Also, changing a seal whilst in the water isn't as bad as it sounds.
Having had my problems, I feel even more confident to change a seal in the water in the future.

However, if I had the choice of Tide Seals or the older packed seals, I would choose the older concept.

 

[John100156]

Having had PSS seals on my F43, although the Tide Seals on my P45 are working very well, I think I prefer PSS. Never had any issues with them.

 

[BartW]

thank you all for the advice,
all thoughts much apreciated,

thanks Mike for the elaborate explanation,
I'm also planning to supervice the replacement, so that I know how todo it in case I'm in need,
the yard in sant Antioco first said we know those seals, but when they checked them closely they confirmed they don't know "this model" ...

at the time when I decided to replace the stuffing boxes, there in Italy I had much advice against Tides, (imo they just didn't know it) but decided to go that route anyway, bcs I heard positive comments here on the forum,
and I liked the idea of a spare set of seals fitted on the shaft.

remember that my shafts were very warn (from the seal in the stuffing box) so not ideal for this type of seals, but they could move the seal to a fairly undamaged position on the shafts
so far they were good for 5..6 seasons, so they should be ok

 

[BartW]

Having had PSS seals on my F43, although the Tide Seals on my P45 are working very well, I think I prefer PSS. Never had any issues with them.

yes PSS thats what the italian yard sugested, and tbh these "look" very good and very solid.
thats also what I have seen in newer Canados boats

 

[MapisM]

B, as you know I have no first hand experience with Tides seals, but my feeling is that while the spares obviously aren't suffering any mechanical wear, they still get old over time, and in a rather unforgiving environment, with big thermal excursions.
What I mean is that I wouldn't be surprised if after several years they could lose a bit of the lip "elasticity" they must rely on for a good seal when they are working. So, I'm not sure it's worth "saving" some spares just because you don't need them now, and I would tend to prefer replacing both sides for a fresh start, so to speak.

Anyhow, imho even if I understand your reasons for not being 100% happy with the 2018 yard, probably their recommendation of PSS made good sense, particularly with shafts that worked quite a lot with stuffing boxes. Hindsight is a great thing, of course...

 

[tico]

Interesting conversation - my Princess has the 'old' type Tides seals (retained with a spiral spring clip) and had, I suspect, the original seals (been in place for 20 years)
One side started weeping slightly, so, in spite of the instructions claiming they could be changed in situ, I bottled it and arranged for a 'lift & hold' while I removed the old seal and slid the spare down the shaft. I'm happy that I took this approach as the failed seal was a bugga to remove. Replacement slid in fine using 2 clamps.
Last winter I took the opportunity to change both the working seals and the spares for new thinking that the spares had been in place for 20 years so had probably hardened.
All good so far.

PS: Hurricanes a braver man than I!

 

[Hurricane]

thank you all for the advice,
all thoughts much apreciated,

thanks Mike for the elaborate explanation,
I'm also planning to supervice the replacement, so that I know how todo it in case I'm in need,
the yard in sant Antioco first said we know those seals, but when they checked them closely they confirmed they don't know "this model" ...

at the time when I decided to replace the stuffing boxes, there in Italy I had much advice against Tides, (imo they just didn't know it) but decided to go that route anyway, bcs I heard positive comments here on the forum,
and I liked the idea of a spare set of seals fitted on the shaft.

remember that my shafts were very warn (from the seal in the stuffing box) so not ideal for this type of seals, but they could move the seal to a fairly undamaged position on the shafts
so far they were good for 5..6 seasons, so they should be ok

To be fair to Tides, our Princess was fitted with an earlier model.
The newer ones that I have replaced are slightly different.
The new ones appear to have slightly bigger front ring but they are fitted with screws rather than allen bolts

This is our old one


And this is the new one - very similar - but definitely different