This Forum is becoming more Cosmopolitan

[newtothis]

Australians- they said Perth and Fremantle have very large Italian (and Greek) origin communities.

Not sure if it's still true, but when I lived in Melbourne is was the third largest Greek city in the world. For Italians it was in the top 10. Around 30 years ago I was working in the Sicilian Mafia restaurant trade there and could speak passable restaurant Italian for a while.

 

[Poignard]

Isn't that the job of the Académie Française?

Maybe. That's the outfit that tries to maintain the purity of the French language by outlawing foreign words such as le weekend.

 

[25931]

I've lived in France for 32 years; almost as long as your wife has been on the other side of the channel, and as of 2019, I am a French Citizen. Like your wife, I constantly discover new subtleties. Most people tell me that my speech is almost indistinguishable from that of a native born Frenchman, but in general, the first inkling that a French person has that I'm not a native French speaker is when I trip up over the gender of a noun. I still find it all completely illogical after all this time, despite my fluency in the language.

Explain to me why it is un sein (a breast) , but une bitte (a penis).

I don't want to be rude about the French so all I shall say is that penis in Latin and Portuguese is masculine, a woman's breast in Latin is mamma feminine and in Portuguese mama is fem.
I also, after 40 years and speaking fluently (with a Lancashire accent but universally understood) make a mistake with gender because when I was learning I failed to take sufficient notice whereas that problem never arose with French because I learned at school rather than in bed.

 

[westhinder]

I've lived in France for 32 years; almost as long as your wife has been on the other side of the channel, and as of 2019, I am a French Citizen. Like your wife, I constantly discover new subtleties. Most people tell me that my speech is almost indistinguishable from that of a native born Frenchman, but in general, the first inkling that a French person has that I'm not a native French speaker is when I trip up over the gender of a noun. I still find it all completely illogical after all this time, despite my fluency in the language.

Explain to me why it is un sein (a breast) , but une bitte (a penis).

Language is not a logical construct, we all know. The question of gender in language is a particularly good case in point. For all things inanimate English uses ’it’, (unless you refer to it in a way expressing affection, then it becomes she), French has two possibilities, male and female, German and Dutch have three, male, female and neuter. There is no logic behind the gender that is used, and it need not remain unchangeable. Dutch as it is spoken in the Netherlands is evolving towards two genders for objects, male and neuter. Deur, which means door, is feminine originally and still is in Flanders, whereas most Dutchmen will refer to the door as ‘he’. You will even find quite a number of Dutchmen who will refer to a cow as ‘he’, even in the sense of ‘he gives milk’. Ultimately the variant that is used most frequently will win, until it is replaced by something newer and more fashionable

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The structure of European languages are based on Hellenistic/Greek language where a single adjective may have masculine, feminine, and neuter forms; it has been like this for thousands of years.
However, in all languages, anything that is expensive and provides pleasure, such as Boats, are feminine; I wonder why!!

 

[Fossil]

Well, here in New Zealand, where I now live, a sensible and courageous Government and good public support for early and hard lockdown measures, followed up by mandatory quarantine and an effective track 'n trace system (not to mention a thousand miles of cold ocean) has kept us relatively covid-free and able to enjoy a mostly-normal life within our borders. We can go sailing, shopping, out to pubs and concerts and do all the other good things that are fast becoming a distant memory in other parts of the world. A previous sailor on the South Coast of England, who lived in Brussels for many years and kept a boat in the Netherlands, I love the multinational, multicultural nature of this forum and appreciate the many different viewpoints that are expressed here. Long may it live! And to all sailors everywhere, stay safe, stay cool, wash your hands a lot, respect social distancing and mask-wearing, get vaccinated as soon as you can. The plague will run its course and we will be back doing what we love. Good luck, all!

 

[LadyInBed]

It's not always easy to determine if a contributor is a native English speaker or not, but I reckon that the more youthful contributers can be detected by their predilection to to start a post with So.
So I'm thinking of changing my battery . . .
So how do I . . .
It appears to be a modern trend.

 

[Gary Fox]

 

[skipmac]

Well, here in New Zealand, where I now live, a sensible and courageous Government and good public support for early and hard lockdown measures, followed up by mandatory quarantine and an effective track 'n trace system (not to mention a thousand miles of cold ocean) has kept us relatively covid-free and able to enjoy a mostly-normal life within our borders. We can go sailing, shopping, out to pubs and concerts and do all the other good things that are fast becoming a distant memory in other parts of the world. A previous sailor on the South Coast of England, who lived in Brussels for many years and kept a boat in the Netherlands, I love the multinational, multicultural nature of this forum and appreciate the many different viewpoints that are expressed here. Long may it live! And to all sailors everywhere, stay safe, stay cool, wash your hands a lot, respect social distancing and mask-wearing, get vaccinated as soon as you can. The plague will run its course and we will be back doing what we love. Good luck, all!

I find it quite interesting that a number of world travelers, most notably Eric and Susan Hiscock and Lynn and Larry Pardey, after cruising the world for years ended up in New Zealand when it was time to swallow the anchor.

 

[Sybarite]

Did I do that? Sorry!

No. Not you. Sorry if I gave that impression.

 

[Sybarite]

I've lived in France for 32 years; almost as long as your wife has been on the other side of the channel, and as of 2019, I am a French Citizen. Like your wife, I constantly discover new subtleties. Most people tell me that my speech is almost indistinguishable from that of a native born Frenchman, but in general, the first inkling that a French person has that I'm not a native French speaker is when I trip up over the gender of a noun. I still find it all completely illogical after all this time, despite my fluency in the language.

Explain to me why it is un sein (a breast) , but une bitte (a penis).

Some nouns even change gender.

When automobiles first came out they were masculine : un (véhicule) automobile. Now they are feminine, probably influenced by une voiture. The Académie Française finally came down on the side of feminine in July 1931 but there was still dissension.

 

[Sybarite]

I've lived in France for 32 years; almost as long as your wife has been on the other side of the channel, and as of 2019, I am a French Citizen. Like your wife, I constantly discover new subtleties. Most people tell me that my speech is almost indistinguishable from that of a native born Frenchman, but in general, the first inkling that a French person has that I'm not a native French speaker is when I trip up over the gender of a noun. I still find it all completely illogical after all this time, despite my fluency in the language.

Explain to me why it is un sein (a breast) , but une bitte (a penis).

Perfectly logical. If you take the Ile de Sein there are normally two aren't there?

 

[MADRIGAL]

Yes we do, lots of widely different kinds of Flemish dialects, or even German ones, that’s why we have Dutch as the common denominator. But our Dutch is clearly different from the Dutch used in the Netherlands. Just like American and British English, separated by the same language.

Nobody is as capable of making a hash out of the French language as an English-speaking Canadian trying to order a sandwich in his country’s other official language. Perhaps we should follow Westhinder’s Belgian example and use Dutch as a compromise.

 

[rogerthebodger]

All this bi and tri language speakers and countries, just think of the problems I have with 11 official languages in one country.

Most speak some kind of English so I don't have too many issues/

 

[Metabarca]

Talking of gender and Latin, I was always surprised that sailors were feminine – nauta – whereas the ship they sailed was also feminine but didn't sound that way, being irregular: navis.

 

[01_Anna]

The structure of European languages are based on Hellenistic/Greek (...) in all languages, anything that is expensive and provides pleasure, such as Boats, are feminine; I wonder why!!

Only SOME of European languages are based on Greek/Latin roots/base...
and in my native tongue (as well as few others, also European);
"jacht" is definitely masculine.
Both in its grammatical sense, and...
in reality.

 

[westhinder]

Only SOME of European languages are based on Greek/Latin roots/base...
and in my native tongue (as well as few others, also European);
"jacht" is definitely masculine.
Both in its grammatical sense, and...
in reality.

You’re right of course about the origin of European languages.
Even in Germanic languages the gender of words will differ. Boot is neuter in German, masculine in Dutch. jacht is neuter in Dutch and feminine in German

 

[Frogmogman]

These days if someone corrects me on the gender of a noun, I just point out that I'm a modern sort of guy, so I'm OK with gender fluidity.

 

[tony_lavelle]

All those foreigners coming over here, taking our British electrons!

Nowadays most of our electrons come from France, via EDF.

 

[Neeves]

After all these posts on languages, educational as they may have been......

Since when did linguistic skill, or lack of, determine the idea of being cosmopolitan? (I Think I spelt the key word correctly ).

- free from local, provincial or national ideas, prejudices or attachments, at home all over the world.........and as a result is very open to different ideas

So. : ) ? .......... lets not mention 'yawing and veering', a 'hammerlock', 'horsing' or even the meaning of 'yacht'

Though of course the OP might have meant we were all tending toward drinking a Vodka based cocktail.......? and though I have presbyterian leanings (being parsimonious) I do have catholic tastes in (many things and) alcohol (so I think this helps make me either cosmopolitan, or an alcoholic ) and I hate to be defined as pedantic.

Jonathan