This Forum is becoming more Cosmopolitan

[langstonelayabout]

Just like American and British English, separated by the same language.

Fantastic. I really noticed this in one of my first meetings in Riyadh where I met with Saudis, Pakistanis, Indians, S. Koreans and French. All speaking very good English.

I could barely understand anything. The words were correct but not necessarily in the right context or order. Frustratingly, these guys all understood one another, but hardly understood what I was saying.

My, how I cried into my coca cola that evening...

 

[01_Anna]

"Nauta" is masculine in Latin, but it uses the first declention (feminine); but then adjectives would still follow the masculine.

 

[01_Anna]

westhinder said:
Just like American and British English, separated by the same language.

It is even worse...for us, hapless non-native (English as a foreign language)- speakers.?

I do occasionally race my boat, and the most international- cosmopolitan?- crew consisted of:
an American lady (keen racer),
a Kenyan gentlemen (ditto),
my very own half-Irish kid (budding racer), and then only non native ...myself.

The innocent question:
"Are we going to fly the kite now?" left me totally and utterly confused.

Could anyone explain to me please, why ??? is the "spinnaker" called anything other, than that, by the natives?
I have also heard:
chute, shute, code (put in the relevant number here...)...

 

[westhinder]

My wife who is German once asked me after a sailing race why I was being so rude.

"Rude?" I questioned
"Yes, why do you keep asking: 'Do you mind passing me the winch handle?' Why do you think I'd mind?"

English!

Learning English is pretty easy at first: the grammar is straightforward and the basic vocabulary is no problem for anyone coming from another Germanic language. It becomes difficult when you start acquiring the idioms, which make up a far greater part of daily usage than in the other languages I’m familiar with. And then there is the next level, that I would describe as getting to know what is socially appropriate in the circumstances. It is so easy for us foreigners to come across as blunt, rude or even aggressive without even realising, or to misinterpret politeness or humour for something else.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Learning English is pretty easy at first: the grammar is straightforward and the basic vocabulary is no problem for anyone coming from another Germanic language. It becomes difficult when you start acquiring the idioms, which make up a far greater part of daily usage than in the other languages I’m familiar with. And then there is the next level, that I would describe as getting to know what is socially appropriate in the circumstances. It is so easy for us foreigners to come across as blunt, rude or even aggressive without even realising, or to misinterpret politeness or humour for something else.

Learning English if you already speak a Germanic language such as Dutch, Danish, Norse etc, should be straight forward as the syntax and phonetically is practically the same.
However, learning English if you are Italian, French, Greek etc, its much more difficult as the accent is very different, phonetically different and the syntax is different too. Southern European languages are spoken with the "lips", northern European languages are spoken from the "throat".
One can master a language but accent and syntax it's much more difficult to achieve, and may never achieve. But, it's amazing how everyone in the yachting community very quickly learn the word "gybe" and never forget it either

 

[Sybarite]

Also Anna,

You make a great point re the lack of the fairer sex on this forum, in respect of which you should know that you are more than welcome!

You (I hope) won't encounter sexism on here, but 'anchorism' is another matter

One needs to be cqr in one's anchorism... Be a Man son.

 

[rogerthebodger]

"Are we going to fly the kite now?" left me totally and utterly confused.

Thn here is the other use of "go fly a kite"

GO FLY A KITE | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

 

[Neeves]

And taking of kites, 'Brace', 'guy' or even 'sheet' and we had 'veer' and 'shearing' on another current thread and 'horsing' and 'seesawing' a number of times - not to mention 'hockle' and even using 'scope' (in terms of anchoring ) correctly. And don't mention hammerlock!

Jonathan

 

[MADRIGAL]

An attempt to derail the discussion. Nothing else.
If you really have nothing constructive to add...then perhaps...don't?
So-there is not going to be any further discussion of languages, boats, but..drinking. As usual.
And then...the eternal forum questions:
why there are not many more people contributing...why there are not young people...or women...
Really, really sad.

I will try to get my two daughters, both keen sailors, away from their university studies long enough to post on the forum. I’m sure they could come up with a question or two that would plumb the depths of the well of knowledge that exists on the forum - which is not just the preserve of middle-aged white blokes like their old Dad.

 

[01_Anna]

One needs to be cqr in one's anchorism... Be a Man son.

Being a Lady- I am firmly embedded...
in an American Fortress camp!

....Sailing over a predominantly sandy/muddy sea bed might have something to do with it too...

Surely this is...
very cosmopolitan...sailing

 

[Neeves]

Being a Lady- I am firmly embedded...
in an American Fortress camp!

....Sailing over a predominantly sandy/muddy sea bed might have something to do with it too...

Surely this is...
very cosmopolitan...sailing

Well it would be, very cosmopolitan, but the Supreme irony is that the idea of Fortress America did not go down too well and you seldom see a Fortress protecting a bow in Europe. . The semantics are certainly a refreshing change but I prefer to call a Spade and Spade and find my quiver of anchors - Excels.

Jonathan

 

[dom]

Learning English is pretty easy at first: the grammar is straightforward and the basic vocabulary is no problem for anyone coming from another Germanic language. It becomes difficult when you start acquiring the idioms, which make up a far greater part of daily usage than in the other languages I’m familiar with. And then there is the next level, that I would describe as getting to know what is socially appropriate in the circumstances. It is so easy for us foreigners to come across as blunt, rude or even aggressive without even realising, or to misinterpret politeness or humour for something else.

Interesting, and I guess the corollary is that foreigners can sometimes fail to recognise British bluntness. Another one from my wife:

One of the big German industrials was opening a new production facility in SE England which basically cocked-up on Day 1

"Why didn't you tell me about this when I asked you yesterday?" the angry German CEO asked his UK Production Manager

"But I did tell you!" protested the UK Manager

"No you didn't, you said, 'Unfortunately there's a small problem' not a really huge one! "
?

 

[01_Anna]

This is OT- but I cannot find another way to reply, without veering out of the scope of the thread's title:

Is Excel - you mention Sarca-Excell? This is the only reference I could find during a cursory search of Internet.
I could not find any non-Australian distributor-to cross check the info.
As for Fortress- that would hardly be suitable to be used as a permanent fixture on the bow- as the fact that it folds flat, for storage is one of its additional advantages.
The disadvantages:
one, that I mentioned : not very good holding power in rocky sea bed (and that would be the conditions, if I were sailing at home);
and unfortunately, the price.
To keep my non-sailing husband happy and worry free about the safety of his precious off-spring...it was worth investing in.

I do apologise, for not keeping to the subject matter of the original thread.

 

[skipmac]

This is OT- but I cannot find another way to reply, without veering out of the scope of the thread's title:

Is Excel - you mention Sarca-Excell? This is the only reference I could find during a cursory search of Internet.
I could not find any non-Australian distributor-to cross check the info.
As for Fortress- that would hardly be suitable to be used as a permanent fixture on the bow- as the fact that it folds flat, for storage is one of its additional advantages.
The disadvantages:
one, that I mentioned : not very good holding power in rocky sea bed (and that would be the conditions, if I were sailing at home);
and unfortunately, the price.
To keep my non-sailing husband happy and worry free about the safety of his precious off-spring...it was worth investing in.

I do apologise, for not keeping to the subject matter of the original thread.

Well since you started it perhaps I can join in without incurring guilt of my own.

I do think the Fortress is a great anchor and a worthy addition to every boat BUT as you mention, there are some weaknesses. In addition to poor setting or holding in hard and rocky bottoms they also do poorly at resetting when wind or tide reverses. Regardless, the Fortress has tested to show the highest, straight-line holding power of any anchor for the size and weight. I keep one disassembled in a locker to bring out in case of a major storm.

 

[dom]

Oh wow, we’re somehow back on anchors

 

[skipmac]

Oh wow, we’re somehow back on anchors

Be glad this isn't an American forum, we would be talking about guns.

 

[01_Anna]

My apologies, once more!
Going back to international sailing then:
I discussed it with my native-speaker kids:
"What is the origin of nautical/sailing vocabulary in English?" They concluded, it comes from back in time, from archaic words used by sailors, trading with various nations around the globe.
Which is interesting, as in continental Europe- a lot of sailing, and to a lesser degree nautical vocabulary, is derived from Dutch (=as a language). I was surprised to learn that, but it turned out to be the case. Of course, we are talking of the "ancient" roots from many centuries ago. As for modern usage- in Europe German might be the "lingua franca", which is probably to large degree due to many Germans skippering in the Med.
But: when I went to the bay of Fundy (Canada)...in the search of Wales of course...what were the most commonly found boats? You guessed: German!

 

[dom]

But: when I went to the bay of Fundy (Canada)...in the search of Wales of course...what were the most commonly found boats? You guessed: German!

I hear Cardigan Bay is also very good for that!

 

[Neeves]

This is OT- but I cannot find another way to reply, without veering out of the scope of the thread's title:

Is Excel - you mention Sarca-Excell? This is the only reference I could find during a cursory search of Internet.
I could not find any non-Australian distributor-to cross check the info.
As for Fortress- that would hardly be suitable to be used as a permanent fixture on the bow- as the fact that it folds flat, for storage is one of its additional advantages.
The disadvantages:
one, that I mentioned : not very good holding power in rocky sea bed (and that would be the conditions, if I were sailing at home);
and unfortunately, the price.
To keep my non-sailing husband happy and worry free about the safety of his precious off-spring...it was worth investing in.

I do apologise, for not keeping to the subject matter of the original thread.

Just to answer and then the thread can revert to linguistics and semantics

You do see Fortress, ungainly though they look, on the bow rollers of American yachts. You never, all right almost never see them anywhere else. Americans 'make' them work (and must find it very difficult with spinnaker work). Anna uses one, she seems to suggest as her primary anchor. She also says her seabeds are sand and mud - horses for courses. I believe Fortress recommend anchors that are quite large for the size of the yacht, this means you cannot set them deeply, so the stock protrudes - all ready to be tripped in a change of tide (or wind). We downsized from a FX 23 to a FX 16 - solely for this reason. The FX 16 offers more than enough hold (for a 38' cat). Fortress exceptional product, light, stores flat, can be set from a dinghy - just note its not perfect.

Yes SARCA Excel, no current UK distributor, one in Vancouver (if you happen to be N American based). Good in most seabeds, except thin mud (where the Fortress stands head and shoulders above the rest). The Epsilon may, I stress the 'may' be as good as an all round anchor, like the Excel - wait for some feedback from users.

Sorry for the drift.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

My apologies, once more!
Going back to international sailing then:
I discussed it with my native-speaker kids:
"What is the origin of nautical/sailing vocabulary in English?" They concluded, it comes from back in time, from archaic words used by sailors, trading with various nations around the globe.
Which is interesting, as in continental Europe- a lot of sailing, and to a lesser degree nautical vocabulary, is derived from Dutch (=as a language). I was surprised to learn that, but it turned out to be the case. Of course, we are talking of the "ancient" roots from many centuries ago. As for modern usage- in Europe German might be the "lingua franca", which is probably to large degree due to many Germans skippering in the Med.
But: when I went to the bay of Fundy (Canada)...in the search of Wales of course...what were the most commonly found boats? You guessed: German!

In the NE of England, think Hartlepool, a mist comes in off the North Sea. Those living there call it a Har or a Fret, or Frit (actually they call it a sea frit). As far as I know the word har does not extend north into Scotland nor south.

A Finnish word for mist on the sea is the word Har and Finnish is, in part, a language with Asian origins.

In Cantonese the word 'har' means a sea mist.

Jonathan

You can tell, or could tell, who owns a yacht by the anchors they carry. Germans carry Bugels, Americans Fortress. Round the world most yachts with a Spade are French, think Tahiti. The Brits carried CQRs and Bruce, never Britany, which are again restricted to French owned boats. I only see genuine Danforth in locations with a strong American influence, Japan!? Northill variants in the American Pacific islands, and S Korea.