The RYA get my back up when it comes to the ICC

[Nostrodamus]

It has really bugged me how the RYA can charge £43 for and ICC renewal which as they state on their site is just a paper exercise. Why should we have to renew it every 5 years (when my paper car licence lasts almost a lifetime). It really puts me off the RYA as they are not helping members but are gathering money. Also, if you are abroad when it needs to be renewed it is a real pain. I just refuse to do it on principal.
Anyway, I needed to get the new Greek DEKPA the other day and saw my ICC had expired. I went in with my RYA logbook which had a few certificates in and they were quite happy to accept that as a form of competence and duly issued me with my DEKPA.
It may not work everywhere but certainly it is worth trying and save me the hassle and £43.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Honestly, if that is the basis of your gripe against the RYA, a mere £45 per 5 years, then perhaps you should take a good look at their website to see just what they do for the UK leisure industry. Hopefully that should convince you that as an organisation they are working to ensure sailing / boating is accessible and free from as much interfering as possible. The RYA really does help it's members and non members alike. There is also a significant amount of lobbying and consultation between the RYA and others in support of our activities.

 

[jordanbasset]

The ICC has a photo so I suppose it has to be renewed every now and again. As a member of the RYA renewal is free, it also gets me a 10% reduction in marina fees, all in all I am quids in.

 

[Nostrodamus]

So, if the ICC is free to members then it either cost next to nothing to produce the certificate or they are making a mint out of those not in the RYA. To me it is the second option.
As I say, it is legalised extortion.

 

[Sandy]

So, if the ICC is free to members then it either cost next to nothing to produce the certificate or they are making a mint out of those not in the RYA. To me it is the second option.
As I say, it is legalised extortion.

A free ICC is one of the benefits of membership.

You may notice that if you attend an organisations event there is a charge for non members, e.g if I tag along to one of my wife's less boring accountancy things run by her institution I get charged more than she does.

Do you have a requirement for an ICC? Can you get it cheaper anywhere else. Its a free market you can go elsewhere and buy one.

 

[Nostrodamus]

As far as I know the government have appointed the RYA as the sole agents for the supply of the ICC so it is not a free market.
I also believe that the RYA get millions in grants from the government each year so are they truly independent?

I am not saying the RYA do not do a lot for British boating. They do but this ICC thing is bugging me.

 

[Sandy]

As far as I know the government have appointed the RYA as the sole agents for the supply of the ICC so it is not a free market.
I also believe that the RYA get millions in grants from the government each year so are they truly independent?

I am not saying the RYA do not do a lot for British boating. They do but this ICC thing is bugging me.

Other nations issue the ICC. Its a free market. Other sports also get millions each year, it is so that the government don't have to run them, fits in with Mr Cameron's Big Society policy.

 

[Nostrodamus]

I found this interesting reading... https://www.atlassailing.co.uk/training/iyt-not-rya/

 

[sailorman]

As far as I know the government have appointed the RYA as the sole agents for the supply of the ICC so it is not a free market.
I also believe that the RYA get millions in grants from the government each year so are they truly independent?

I am not saying the RYA do not do a lot for British boating. They do but this ICC thing is bugging me.

Stop whining, join the RYA & support British sailing, then the ICC is a free benefit

 

[deuc02]

With Nostradamus on this one. RYA on a money grabbing exercise. But hey...that's the UK way.

 

[ShinyShoe]

It has really bugged me how the RYA can charge £43 for and ICC renewal which as they state on their site is just a paper exercise.

SO they do have a cost of the certificate. I don't have one, but my RYA Level 2 PowerBoat is my most recent certificate and its got a photo and lots of security features etc. I can't imagine they are cheap to produce. Yes the RYA won't be buying them in one off units, but nothing like the numbers DVLA would but in.

Why should we have to renew it every 5 years (when my paper car licence lasts almost a lifetime).

Keep hold of that paper driving licence as long as you can! When you get a photo added (if you move house you have to notify change of address and will then be photo licenced) you will move to 10 yearly renewals.

Renewal of a photo licence will cost at least £14.

It really puts me off the RYA as they are not helping members but are gathering money. Also, if you are abroad when it needs to be renewed it is a real pain. I just refuse to do it on principal.

So don't do it. Obviously you'd do it if you needed it!
I'd be annoyed if as a member I thought they had non-member services that were being supported by the members.

So couple of things you may want to note:
Standard Membership costs £45 by direct debit. So you can get your ICC, and get membership for £2 and then cancel direct debit. If you hunt round you may find cheaper intro offers where it is cheaper to become a member than to get your ICC ;-)

Yes the RYA get grants. But are they getting a grant from the DoT for issue of ICCs? Or are those grants for specific purposes? And are the grants from Government or from other bodies like Sport England? Sport England gets most of its money from the Lotto I believe. So why next time I buy a lottery ticket would I want to be subsidising some poshy yachty type who spends more of his time in Greece sailing rather than in this country?

 

[Nostrodamus]

With Nostradamus on this one. RYA on a money grabbing exercise. But hey...that's the UK way.

Thank you deuc02... glad I am not alone.

 

[ShinyShoe]

I found this interesting reading... https://www.atlassailing.co.uk/training/iyt-not-rya/

I read nothing there that made me think if I do an IYT course I will come off a better sailor than an RYA course...? I will come off able to rant about the RYA but otherwise I would need to do a few more hours etc but that seems about it. If they said - we've looked at the stats and IYT sailors are 50% less likely to damage a charter boat...

 

[Nostrodamus]

I'd be annoyed if as a member I thought they had non-member services that were being supported by the members.

So couple of things you may want to note:
Standard Membership costs £45 by direct debit. So you can get your ICC, and get membership for £2 and then cancel direct debit. If you hunt round you may find cheaper intro offers where it is cheaper to become a member than to get your ICC ;-)

Yes the RYA get grants. But are they getting a grant from the DoT for issue of ICCs? Or are those grants for specific purposes? And are the grants from Government or from other bodies like Sport England? Sport England gets most of its money from the Lotto I believe. So why next time I buy a lottery ticket would I want to be subsidising some poshy yachty type who spends more of his time in Greece sailing rather than in this country?

So why as a non member should I be supporting members by paying over the odds! I don't get a choice. I also believe that the funding for the certificates is from the price of them not from lottery tickets so am I funding all you posh yachty types in the UK?
The RYA also get a very large grant direct from the UK government I believe.
If you are in the UK you don't need an ICC.

 

[ctva]

As far as I know the government have appointed the RYA as the sole agents for the supply of the ICC so it is not a free market.
I also believe that the RYA get millions in grants from the government each year so are they truly independent?

I am not saying the RYA do not do a lot for British boating. They do but this ICC thing is bugging me.

How much government / public funding do the RYA get?

 

[macd]

As far as I know the government have appointed the RYA as the sole agents for the supply of the ICC so it is not a free market.

The British Sub-Aqua Club can also issue them: £15 for members, £35 for non-members.
(Also British Water Ski Federation, but I've no idea of their fees.)

I agree that the RYA's price must make it a profit-generator, which I think questionable (and we can see that the BSAC can do it for less and still, presumably, make money). It will also inflate their membership figures, which they will no-doubt employ as an indicator of their influence.

I have to give them one small credit. My ICC was due to run out in June this year. It was a convenience to apply for its replacement in March. The new ICC duly arrived, valid for five years and three months, rather than the nominal five years. So there's no reason to find yourself in the position you were when you applied for your DEKPA (although nowhere I could find on the RYA website explains this practice).

Why should we have to renew it every 5 years (when my paper car licence lasts almost a lifetime).

So no points in decades. What a saint you are

 

[duncan99210]

The RYA (and BSAC) don't decide how long the ICC lasts for, that's down to the treaty establishing the thing.

As regards membership benefits, it's an even better bargain if you have a family membership, as each member of the family gets a freebie. So for us it's about £60 for the membership saving us about £20 when we need to renew. It's also free to get them to issue replacement certificates if they get lost of damaged. As well as supporting the lobbying etc.

 

[macd]

The RYA (and BSAC) don't decide how long the ICC lasts for, that's down to the treaty establishing the thing.

...As well as supporting the lobbying etc.

That may be correct, but Resolution 40 makes no mention of period of validity, and certainly not five years. The suggested pro-forma certificate, however, does have 'Date of expiry...", so clearly some defined period of validity was intended.

Incidentally, in many issuing countries the ICC is a credit-card like document, rather than the nasty thing the RYA supplies. Both formats are approved by R.40.

I think the freedom - or not - to "support the lobbying" is precisely why some people consider the fee structure unfair. To that wound, you've added salt by describing how well it happens to suit you and your family

 

[Tin Tin]

The RYA (and BSAC) don't decide how long the ICC lasts for, that's down to the treaty establishing the thing.

It isn't.
In several countries on the continent, the ICC is issued 'for life'.

 

[Nostrodamus]

It isn't.
In several countries on the continent, the ICC is issued 'for life'.

Strange that the RYA recognise that in giving you day skippers or Yachtmasters that the qualification last for life and you can still use it and sail yet the ICC only lasts for 5 years yet they still use a copy of your certificates to prove that you are competent.

We had a few people this year with problems because they have no RYA certificates or anything else yet they had been living aboard and sailing for between 10 and 20 years.