The pro's and cons of steel boat building

[Deleted member 36384]

BC coast is littered with old abandoned plastic boats. .......

If I google pictures of British Columbia coast line, it shows the shores littered with logs, not boats. Have a look: -

https://www.google.com/search?clien....0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0....0.CT0XF3u2Fk4

In fact if I search 'shoreline wrecks in British Columbia' I get a whole load of steel and wooden boats, no GRP yachts. Have a look: -

shoreline wrecks of British Columbia

 

[GHA]

I've sailed at night - alone, for weeks at a time - and didn't really worry about hitting anything. My GRP boat and I made it through alive. I wouldn't have been any less stressed in a steel hull.in

I've the plug from a holesaw which cut a new hole for a sounder screwed to bulkhead next to the chart table. A reminder that there's 6mm of really tough steel which will bounce off the floating debris out mid ocean is actually very reassuring

 

[Tranona]

BC coast is littered with old abandoned plastic boats. I know of only one steel one, a landing craft, beached because it woudn't sink( to much foam in it.)

That is perhaps because there are so few steel yachts built in comparison to GRP. GRP boats are usually abandoned because they are uneconomic to operate, but the GRP is almost indestructible. That is a major problem because there is not an economic method of recycling them.

Suggest you come to Europe and do a tour of the boatyards to see plenty of abandoned steel boats, most of which are rusting away.

Please recognise that BC is but a tiny part of the universe and is not representative of the rest.

 

[bbg]

I've the plug from a holesaw which cut a new hole for a sounder screwed to bulkhead next to the chart table. A reminder that there's 6mm of really tough steel which will bounce off the floating debris out mid ocean is actually very reassuring

My boat had positive buoyancy. Enough internal foam to keep the boat afloat even if holed. Also reassuring.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

BC coast is littered with old abandoned plastic boats. I know of only one steel one, a landing craft, beached because it woudn't sink( to much foam in it.)

Actually digging further, I see your point. An initiative by the BC authorities to clear up abandoned boats, most look like GRP ones: -

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/derelict-boats-oak-bay-vancouver-island-1.4356127

The UK has a similar problem around it's coast with various yards and harbours having old GRP boats. At least the steel ones eventually corrode.

 

[Brent Swain]

That may be because the plastic boats float after the keels fall off, while the steel boats sink out of sight?

What you are saying is plastic boats sink in sight while steel boats sink out of sight?
Ya sure!
Brilliant!

 

[Brent Swain]

My boat had positive buoyancy. Enough internal foam to keep the boat afloat even if holed. Also reassuring.

A good idea on any plastic boat.Surprising it is not more common on ocean cruisers, given how easy it is to do. Also gives huge improvement in comfort with all that insulation.If you hole, you may have a boat full of water, but at least you still have all your stuff to work with. Much better, however, to have a boat tough enough to not hole in the first place, and have only a slight dent ,or scraped paint to deal with. That takes a metal hull.

 

[Brent Swain]

That is perhaps because there are so few steel yachts built in comparison to GRP. GRP boats are usually abandoned because they are uneconomic to operate, but the GRP is almost indestructible. That is a major problem because there is not an economic method of recycling them.

Suggest you come to Europe and do a tour of the boatyards to see plenty of abandoned steel boats, most of which are rusting away.

Please recognise that BC is but a tiny part of the universe and is not representative of the rest.

I have on my compute, a picture of a stock plastic boat in totally sheltered water, on soft mud which his breaking up under its own weight. Cant figure out how to get it to post here.
Yes BC is small part of the world but much bigger than Britain, which is also small part of the world.

 

[Brent Swain]

Completely relevant for many modern boat owners. Both my last two boats have Kevlar reinforcement in the vulnerable areas of the bow and forward parts of the keel. Many new boats now is the same or carbon reinforcement in hull construction.

The probability of collision or grounding that results in loss of the boat is statistically insignificant and very low on the list of concerns by most sailors unless paranoid like you or perhaps deliberately sailing in areas where the risk is marginally higher.

That is why the number of sailors that choose steel is equally statistically insignificant. Human beings are good at risk assessment - that is rationally assessing the nature of risks and the probability of them occurring. They then take a rational view on how to avid them and then how to mitigate if they do occur.

Nobody intelligent and rational listen to doom mongers like yourself particularly when you make claims that are not supported by any evidence.

People buy whatever has the most promotion. Plastic has had exponentially more promotion than steel for the convenience of builders and salesmen , as they have always believed their only option for steel was 1950s building methods.

 

[Brent Swain]

If I google pictures of British Columbia coast line, it shows the shores littered with logs, not boats. Have a look: -

https://www.google.com/search?clien....0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0....0.CT0XF3u2Fk4

In fact if I search 'shoreline wrecks in British Columbia' I get a whole load of steel and wooden boats, no GRP yachts. Have a look: -

shoreline wrecks of British Columbia

Logs which were, and often are, floating low in the water, to sink plastic boats in the night

 

[Brent Swain]

Completely relevant for many modern boat owners. Both my last two boats have Kevlar reinforcement in the vulnerable areas of the bow and forward parts of the keel. Many new boats now is the same or carbon reinforcement in hull construction.

The probability of collision or grounding that results in loss of the boat is statistically insignificant and very low on the list of concerns by most sailors unless paranoid like you or perhaps deliberately sailing in areas where the risk is marginally higher.

That is why the number of sailors that choose steel is equally statistically insignificant. Human beings are good at risk assessment - that is rationally assessing the nature of risks and the probability of them occurring. They then take a rational view on how to avid them and then how to mitigate if they do occur.

Nobody intelligent and rational listen to doom mongers like yourself particularly when you make claims that are not supported by any evidence.

Like the claim that steel is tougher than plastic? Give us your evidence that plastic is tougher than steel,. Try a steel pickaxe on an abandoned plastic boat, they try it on 3/16th steel, with a fibreglass pickaxe.

 

[Brent Swain]

Completely relevant for many modern boat owners. Both my last two boats have Kevlar reinforcement in the vulnerable areas of the bow and forward parts of the keel. Many new boats now is the same or carbon reinforcement in hull construction.

The probability of collision or grounding that results in loss of the boat is statistically insignificant and very low on the list of concerns by most sailors unless paranoid like you or perhaps deliberately sailing in areas where the risk is marginally higher.

That is why the number of sailors that choose steel is equally statistically insignificant. Human beings are good at risk assessment - that is rationally assessing the nature of risks and the probability of them occurring. They then take a rational view on how to avid them and then how to mitigate if they do occur.

Nobody intelligent and rational listen to doom mongers like yourself particularly when you make claims that are not supported by any evidence.

Did yours cost you a million dollars for a 37 ft sailboat?
Yes there is a place for carbon. Hockey parents say carbon hockey sticks keep on breaking, at great cost. Carbon is high in tensile strength ,but it's compression strength is entirely dependent on the resin to hold the fibres in column. For that reason, I suspect hockey sticks break on the compression side.
Archers tell me that carbon arrows, while strong , break at any notch stress point,if you get a nick in one. For those reasons, the best place for carbon is on the inside of an existing plastic hull. That doesn't cost a million dollars for the same effect. The main effect of Perry's decisions is just snobbery ,and nothing more.
Sch 80 steel pipe or solid shaft on the leading edges of keels makes them impervious to any head on collisions, far more so than carbon in resin, at a fraction the time and expense.

 

[Brent Swain]

Friends I built a sister ship for, a year before I built mine, got a quote from Allied Shipyard for $87K, to build just a 31 ft shell, hull and decks. I did it for $3500. Mine was launched a month after the steel arrived. No way could I have earned the over $75000 difference in a month working for tradesmen's wages.

 

[prv]

Give us your evidence that plastic is tougher than steel

NOBODY doubts the pros of steel as a material - how could they as they are self evident

There is no doubt that a steel boat is stronger than a GRP boat, none whatsoever.

I don’t think anyone doubts that a steel boat can be stronger than a GRP one.

We have all accepted that steel boats are stronger in the event of grounding or hitting submerged objects.

You are saying plastic is stronger than steel?

Oh dear, Brent. Nobody is saying that.

All the pro GRP posters have accepted that steel is stronger than GRP.

Brent, I’ve never said GRP is stronger than steel, size for size etc.

And finally, ironically:

Putting words in someones mouth, so you will have something to argue against, is an admission that you have nothing else to criticize

Pete

 

[GHA]

My boat had positive buoyancy. Enough internal foam to keep the boat afloat even if holed. Also reassuring.

Good idea for an offshore boat. Though nice not to have a hole in first place.
Embarrassingly i spanked into a pillar buoy couple years ago coming down a river, sun low down dead ahead and head in a mobile phone trying ti get first emails for a few days. Big bang, which would very likely have meant fairly major grp work on a plastic boat instead of some sandpaper and a load of coats of epoxy. So if you don't look forward much get something strong

 

[john_morris_uk]

Logs which were, and often are, floating low in the water, to sink plastic boats in the night

Golly that’s worrying. Can you give us some references to incidents like this actually happening. I appreciate that steel is stronger than GRP, but you’ve cited a risk and implied that it actually happens so I’d like to know how often GRP boats sink or are holed or damaged?

 

[bbg]

A good idea on any plastic boat.Surprising it is not more common on ocean cruisers, given how easy it is to do. Also gives huge improvement in comfort with all that insulation.If you hole, you may have a boat full of water, but at least you still have all your stuff to work with. Much better, however, to have a boat tough enough to not hole in the first place, and have only a slight dent ,or scraped paint to deal with. That takes a metal hull.

Hundreds of thousands - possibly millions - of people have crossed oceans in "plastic" boats. The risk of holing and sinking is not the risk you make it out to be.

Maybe you need to improve your navigation skills so you aren't so afraid of hitting things.

 

[lpdsn]

Golly that’s worrying. Can you give us some references to incidents like this actually happening. I appreciate that steel is stronger than GRP, but you’ve cited a risk and implied that it actually happens so I’d like to know how often GRP boats sink or are holed or damaged?

One was even filmed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvxhQO4pw2E

 

[[70521]]

Forgive me, I'm just an engineer, not a mechanical one like my late father who really did understand metal, but one all the same. Can you advise me how you are measuring the strength of steel verses GRP or any other material? I ask as I've heard that spiders web is much stronger than steel, weight for weight, and you know how us engineers are extremely inquisitive people.

 

[GHA]

Forgive me, I'm just an engineer, not a mechanical one like my late father who really did understand metal, but one all the same. Can you advise me how you are measuring the strength of steel verses GRP or any other material? I ask as I've heard that spiders web is much stronger than steel, weight for weight, and you know how us engineers are extremely inquisitive people.

Get a big sledgehammer and go do some testing.....