"The Changing Thames"

[TrueBlue]

My Unzergruppenfuhrer - a confirmed bookaholic (There is no floorspace left here(, found this title at the Beale Park rally.

It's a fascinating collection of photos in Then (late 19th. century) and Now (2007) format.
Every lock is covered as well as some other features.
The absence of trees in the 1890s and the veritable jungle now deserves comment, as do the issues over dredging - the same gripes in days of yore. The EA claiming that the River is self dredging would have done well to have seen this book...

The Changing Thames
by Brian Eade
The History Press
(www.thehistorypress.co.uk)
ISBN 978 0 7509 4779 4​

Cover price £12.99,
Amazon £11.69, one in stock, free postage.
SWMBO bought hers from the IWA

A good read and well worth collecting for anyone interested in Thames history.

Whilst on the subject BBC London has a small collection, one in particular shows the earlier ferry next to Byron and the now "Frog & Firkin".

 

[Chris_d]

Looks like a good book, thanks for the link I shall be ordering a copy, I love looking at old photos.

It also always strikes me the lack of trees in old photos, clearly tree clearing is a task that is no longer even thought about anymore, in fact we are paranoid about cutting anything down on probably unjustified enviromental grounds, so those that are dangerous or poorly positioned are untouchable.

 

[angelaquayle]

I think there was more tree management back then because the horses pulling barges couldn't operate with trees in the way.

 

[Mark M]

Its looks like a great book I just ordered mine and their is more on ebay at £9.55 with free delivery

Link below

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Changing-Tham...0626284297?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item3f02956309

 

[TrueBlue]

I think there was more tree management back then because the horses pulling barges couldn't operate with trees in the way.

The horses would eat any overhanging branches anyway!!

That's very interesting - I've never thought about how the barges were pulled - not that I've made an attempt to see how the River was worked.
The photos don't show any evidence of horses (to be fair there's not a whole lot of large boats to be seen either).

I was always under the impression that because the land adjoin was / is owned by various riparian owners, that there was no general towpath.

Given that so may locks were flash locks with very restricted opening hours, that volume traffic was just not possible.

This is in contrast with the canal system where the towpaths are owned by the canal companies, and so the towpaths and turnover bridges exist to this day.

Many years ago I asked BW whether I could work my boat with my horse and was rejected because "the canals were not built for horses"......

Perhaps someone who can remember (? Byron) horse traffic will come on here and put me right.


Thank you AQ; that's started a topic which could be quite interesting. The post was not intended to be controversial, just remarking how times have changed.

As a last aside, we have a piece of rural common land outside my door and in my youth I remember the whole area being area being treeless. But I don't recall any of the neighbours managing it, especially after it ceased being used for grazing. Now it's a bit like the later pictures - covered in trees.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Folk don't use wood for fuel that often these days, and that may explain some of it.

 

[teddington_lock]

I thought what is now the 'Thames Path' which is merrily trod by ramblers used to be the old towing path ?

There is a path from the source to the Barrier , if changes side regularly , but there is a path.

http://www.nationaltrail.co.uk/thamespath/text.asp?PageId=29

 

[Outinthedinghy]

I'd always assumed that the 'Thames Path' generally followed the towing path, or barge walk used by horses in ye olde days of yore.

It is normally possible to find an old ferry point at those places where the path changes side, and I believe these were ferries for carrying horses.

Plenty of examples like below cookham lock, below cookham bridge, Medmenham, Opposite the beetle and wedge pub, opposite the pub below Hambleden lock, by Hennerton backwater above Marsh Lock, opposite Spade oak at Bourne End, Bablockhythe, below Gatehampton Bridge etc etc etc they can be found in numerous locations along the river when you look for them and think about how it worked.

They do sometimes seem to coincide with pubs. Perhaps these pubs were in fact inns with stables at some point and the ferry point was also made into a convenient stopping place.

 

[byron]

Many years ago I asked BW whether I could work my boat with my horse and was rejected because "the canals were not built for horses"......

Perhaps someone who can remember (? Byron) horse traffic will come on here and put me right.

obviously I'm not old enough to remember horse drawn barges but I have on occasion seen them. Surely the Canals were constructed with Horses in mind. The River... well certainly the Tow Paths would have been used by horses pre Steam and the internal combustion engine there must be long stretches that are unsuitable now. I.E. Tow Paths wander from one side to the other, cattle ferries (such as the one that was at the Beetle) would take the tow horse over. That is just one example.

 

[TrueBlue]

Thank you Outinthedinghy, Howard and Byron.
I hold up my hand to be guilty of engaging my fingers before doing the research - I knew somebody would be along shortly..

I'm also guilty of listening to "politicians". Some years ago the "creation" of a Thames path from source to sea was trumpeted as "new". In reality it was perhaps just a joining up of disconnected bits.

Certainly cruising along there are very many places where there is no obvious track - from the boaters' view. However, looking at Chris Cove-Smith's excellent book (Th. edition 2009 in colour - plug..), the path can be seen clearly, and yes, the crossover points are near ferries and bridges.

So that's reinforced AQ's assertion.

I had expected to see muddy, gravelly, un-grassed bits by the locks where the horses would have "leant into their collars" to work the barges through.
The lock keepers would have resisted that to protect their fiefdom?

Soo, now we have a solution to the tree cutting problem; bring back horses.

I've got a set of harness to suit 16 2 HH, and a long bit of tow rope but sadly no horse any more.

Can anyone oblige?

 

[oldgit]

Thank you Outinthedinghy, Howard and Byron.
I hold up my hand to be guilty of engaging my fingers before doing the research - I knew somebody would be along shortly..

I'm also guilty of listening to "politicians". Some years ago the "creation" of a Thames path from source to sea was trumpeted as "new". In reality it was perhaps just a joining up of disconnected bits.

Certainly cruising along there are very many places where there is no obvious track - from the boaters' view. However, looking at Chris Cove-Smith's excellent book (Th. edition 2009 in colour - plug..), the path can be seen clearly, and yes, the crossover points are near ferries and bridges.

So that's reinforced AQ's assertion.

I had expected to see muddy, gravelly, un-grassed bits by the locks where the horses would have "leant into their collars" to work the barges through.
The lock keepers would have resisted that to protect their fiefdom?

Soo, now we have a solution to the tree cutting problem; bring back horses.

I've got a set of harness to suit 16 2 HH, and a long bit of tow rope but sadly no horse any more.

Can anyone oblige?

http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/news/hufflers-hauled-barges/article-2179046-detail/article.html
Worth a look

 

[Chris_d]

Many years ago I asked BW whether I could work my boat with my horse and was rejected because "the canals were not built for horses"......

I can't believe someone from BW made that statement if he did he had obviously never seen a canal, as you say there are ramps up to all the locks, turnover bridges which keep the tow rope connected, even bridges with slots in the middle to pass the tow rope through.

Horse traffic on the river must have ceased much sooner than on the canals though, nearly all the infrastructure seems to have disappeared.

 

[azman]

I can't believe someone from BW made that statement

I can!

you have to remember, that this is the same organisation that hired a property developer to run a complex transport network (even if it is now largely used for leisure).

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/about-us/board-and-directors/directors
http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/about-us/board-and-directors/board-members

Count em! 1, I repeat 1, engineer

The only one whos brief bio metions anything to do with water, is an angler.

 

[emjay]

Thanks, TrueBlue

I shall certainly be ordering one.

There is another book that I can recomend for those who like comparing old photos with today's modern river, and that is 'The Victorian Thames' by D. G. Wilson. My only concern is that perhaps some of the photos are 'doubled' in the other book?

The book was originally published in 1993 and features photos by the Oxford-born Victorian photographer Henry Taunt.

There are some on Amazon available at various prices.

Mike

 

[teddington_lock]

And yet another great book is 'The River Thames Revisited' by Graham Diprose , he has followed in the footsteps of Henry Taunt and taken his photos from the same vantage points as old Henry did back in the day.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/River-Thame...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284744217&sr=1-2

I was lucky enough to get a signed copy as he did a talk for the lock staff a year or so ago.

 

[spinreach]

Flash Locks

The Bucks Free Press ran an article the other week which referred to The Changing Thames. It also quoted from a book dated around 1650 about how difficult and dangerous the flash lock at Marlow was with a particular incident claiming 3 lives with a graphic account of one victim having his head smashed in.

When you think of how the flash locks must have worked both in terms of time and effort and now danger, things certainly have improved on the river, well done EA

To see a bit of history and appreciate a bit of what was involved, the last remaining flash lock capstan found on the Thames is located on the bucks bank just above Hurley Weir. Its hidden amongst trees but is about 30m upstream of the weir and is quite a sizeable bit of kit.

 

[Chris_d]

Just got my copy and its facinating, didn't realise it was a paperback though but still good value.

Definately a good read for Thames boaters but there is the odd mistake, Page 44 shows the "old" picture of the lower wharf half a mile downstream of Wallingford bridge but the "now" photo is of above the current public moorings above the bridge.

 

[shades]

The flash lock capstan above Hurley weir was refurbished about 8 years, the work was carried out by the son of the infamous Mr.Barnes-Wallace

 

[Bassplayer]

The flash lock capstan above Hurley weir was refurbished about 8 years, the work was carried out by the son of the infamous Mr.Barnes-Wallace

Now, I am going to appear to be ignorant..... but what is a "flash lock"?

 

[boatone]

Now, I am going to appear to be ignorant..... but what is a "flash lock"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_lock

Very dangerous things, by all accounts