The Chandlers piracy debacle

[Reverend Ludd]

Finally, if someone pointed a gun at me and told me they would kill me if I didn't beg the Big Foot and the Abominable Snowman to do more, I'd do it.

While you were in captivity you and I woud say anything for sure !!

I'd like to see the full transcript of what they said rather than a newspaper story.

Seems odd that they were both asleep 60 miles from the island, I think I might be wide awake with fear.

 

[armchairsailor]

I must admit, I seem to remember that Rachel was on watch. Could be wrong...

 

[snooks]

I must admit, I seem to remember that Rachel was on watch. Could be wrong...

No you're right, it was dark and Rachel was on watch at the time

 

[charles_reed]

Who was to blame is a favourite game played by failed politicians and squabbling children.
We all, including the Chandlers, know they made an error of judgement.

the tenor of their complaint was, as I understood it, the fact that HM Government did insufficient to secure their release.
There is an acknowledged understanding that HM government does not treat with terrorists, hostage-takers or pirates.
Perhaps unlucky and naive would describe the Chandlers, but to say they brought it on themselves is neither wise nor charitable.
Fancy an ambulance crew called to the scene of a head-on car-crash saying "They brought it on themselves, we're not doing anything...?"

 

[aquaholic]

Who was to blame is a favourite game played by failed politicians and squabbling children.
We all, including the Chandlers, know they made an error of judgement.

the tenor of their complaint was, as I understood it, the fact that HM Government did insufficient to secure their release.
There is an acknowledged understanding that HM government does not treat with terrorists, hostage-takers or pirates.
Perhaps unlucky and naive would describe the Chandlers, but to say they brought it on themselves is neither wise nor charitable.
Fancy an ambulance crew called to the scene of a head-on car-crash saying "They brought it on themselves, we're not doing anything...?"

Bravo! thats about the most sensible thing I have read in the last five minutes.
By god we are an opioniated lot

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Who was to blame is a favourite game played by failed politicians and squabbling children.
We all, including the Chandlers, know they made an error of judgement.

the tenor of their complaint was, as I understood it, the fact that HM Government did insufficient to secure their release.
There is an acknowledged understanding that HM government does not treat with terrorists, hostage-takers or pirates.
Perhaps unlucky and naive would describe the Chandlers, but to say they brought it on themselves is neither wise nor charitable.
Fancy an ambulance crew called to the scene of a head-on car-crash saying "They brought it on themselves, we're not doing anything...?"

Good post Charles but your comparison with the Ambulance crew takes an extra step....we're not doing anything. Likely is that one of the cars did bring it on themselves but they still need help.

 

[shaunksb]

Good post Charles but your comparison with the Ambulance crew takes an extra step....we're not doing anything. Likely is that one of the cars did bring it on themselves but they still need help.

+1

By the way does anyone know if Oceans are quite big?

There was one mothership in each direction was there? So I wonder what would be the odds of running into another ship?

.

 

[Litotes]

I think I supported this mainly because I wanted to hear the firsthand account of the gross failure of Royal Navy during the incident.

The Chandlers themselves begged the crew of the RFA "Wave Knight" NOT to try a rescue attempt or continue to follow the ship. This is clear from the transcripts of the messages involved and is confirmed by themselves. They believed that one or both would be killed if rescue was attempted and they were probably right.

 

[alkira]

yes thats another thing- how the Royal Navy were slated for their failure to rescue the Chandlers makes my blood boil.
there have been two cases that know about in the last 2 years here French andAmerican nationals have been killed in crossfire during clumsy rescue attempts
The Royal Navies restraint probably saved the lives of the Chandlers

 

[snooks]

The Chandlers themselves begged the crew of the RFA "Wave Knight" NOT to try a rescue attempt or continue to follow the ship. This is clear from the transcripts of the messages involved and is confirmed by themselves. They believed that one or both would be killed if rescue was attempted and they were probably right.

They had guns pointed at them when they were on the radio, and were being told what to say. Do you really think their kidnappers would let them on the radio unsupervised?

Many times they were woken up and ordered to tell a Danish war ship to back off or they would be killed.

Apparently special forces were on their way, but the Chandlers were transferred to the container ship before they arrived on scene.

 

[Litotes]

They had guns pointed at them when they were on the radio, and were being told what to say. Do you really think their kidnappers would let them on the radio unsupervised?

Of course not. But the threats were real enough and people have, indeed, been killed during attempts to rescue them. Two kinds of risks - one getting shot to deter further attempts at rescue or both getting shot in the melee when special forces arrive. The Chandlers have both survived.

I'm afraid I set no store at all by the opinions of the Monday morning quarterbacks who know so much better than those on the scene what could or should have been done.

 

[ChrisE]

Who was to blame is a favourite game played by failed politicians and squabbling children.
We all, including the Chandlers, know they made an error of judgement.

the tenor of their complaint was, as I understood it, the fact that HM Government did insufficient to secure their release.
There is an acknowledged understanding that HM government does not treat with terrorists, hostage-takers or pirates.
Perhaps unlucky and naive would describe the Chandlers, but to say they brought it on themselves is neither wise nor charitable.
Fancy an ambulance crew called to the scene of a head-on car-crash saying "They brought it on themselves, we're not doing anything...?"

I agree with the tenor of Charles' post.

I've been lucky enough to talk to the Chandlers at an ROA do about 6 weeks after their release. A plucky couple caught up in a fast changing situation is how I'd describe them.

 

[webcraft]

A plucky couple caught up in a fast changing situation is how I'd describe them.

Ten times the sailors of the armchair admirals pontificating on here.

- W

 

[alkira]

How do you know where or where not said AdmiRals have sailed to?!

 

[webcraft]

How do you know where or where not said AdmiRals have sailed to?!

Why do I care? They could have sailed a paper boat to the moon, but with a zero empathy quotient they are not my idea of proper sailors.

- W

 

[VO5]

 

[DaiB]

Quote"There is an acknowledged understanding that HM government does not treat with terrorists, hostage-takers or pirates."Unquote

I think this is an often quoted phrase that seems to me to normally have a bit left off the end and should read

There is an acknowledged understanding that HM government does not treat with terrorists, hostage-takers or pirates, until it suits them.

 

[Poignard]

What's in a name

Surprising how much loathing the wretched Chandlers seem to attract.

Could it be the name, do you think?

 

[john_morris_uk]

I think I supported this mainly because I wanted to hear the firsthand account of the gross failure of Royal Navy during the incident.

Nothing like a bit of judging the issue without knowing the facts. As I have pointed out before, the decision NOT to act was NOT taken by local commanders.

I have spoken to some of the people involved and if you do your research properly you will find that firstly the decision was taken at high government level. (In other words a politician!) Conveniently the same politicians are very happy to keep quiet and let the RN take the flak from the public for what happened.

I also know of some of the people on board the RFA and they were VERY unhappy at being ordered not to intervene. The justification was that they had not received the particular 'intervention specific training' deemed appropriate.
Its no good complaining about gross failure of the RN - we only do what the politicians tell us to do, and its bit rich to make such emotive complaints on a public forum.

OK I know I am being defensive, but the facts as stated above are the facts...

 

[NormanS]

Nothing like a bit of judging the issue without knowing the facts. As I have pointed out before, the decision NOT to act was NOT taken by local commanders.

I have spoken to some of the people involved and if you do your research properly you will find that firstly the decision was taken at high government level. (In other words a politician!) Conveniently the same politicians are very happy to keep quiet and let the RN take the flak from the public for what happened.

I also know of some of the people on board the RFA and they were VERY unhappy at being ordered not to intervene. The justification was that they had not received the particular 'intervention specific training' deemed appropriate.
Its no good complaining about gross failure of the RN - we only do what the politicians tell us to do, and its bit rich to make such emotive complaints on a public forum.

OK I know I am being defensive, but the facts as stated above are the facts...

There was a time when some brave service personnel were deaf and blind to "orders". But that was probably back in the old days, when we made a habit of winning wars.