Tether Hooks

The Spinlock hook does NOT have to be side loaded to fail.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-syuj5jsZL1c/Wpcyx8Soh5I/AAAAAAAAOhs/thnUP4suja0YM9CWuvrMPjRAsASnRHUJwCLcBGAs/s640/7.%2Bspinlock%2Btests%2BSpeirs%252C%2B122%252C%2B600%252C%2Band%2B350%2Bpounds.jpg

The top image is the failed hook. The lower images are hooks that were loaded with the webbing snagged in the gate, which can happen in several ways. They were NOT pried sideways.

An interim report has been published. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/757760/2018_IReport_CV30.pdf
 
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What is interesting is that 67 people read the thread and did not post, so there was some interest and now over 400 people have read the thread and a few responded and with a few exceptions (for example Zoidberg) no-one has kept up too date on this. Not their fault - how would they know?

The case investigated was a Brit on a UK yacht - the investigation was carried out by an American and published in an American magazine (Practical Sailor) (and I think an edited version, based on the PS work?, is available on AAC, Morgans Cloud subscription website.) There is a pending MAIB investigation - no criticism intended of the MAIB. There does not appear to have been any UK, nor Oz, release of a summary nor the current state of play.

We are waiting to see how the industry responds - using 2 tethers is desperately inconvenient.

We have kept upto date - and I wondered, given the absence of threads on the topic, what the UK's awareness was.

Jonathan

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And credit to Thinwater - its stunning work, why did the 'industry' not do all this?

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And what tethers? Our canine crew uses his the most and the others rarely see an outing unless on night passage but certainly older than 2009 so welcome advice as to suitable source and make ?
 
Neeves said:
What is interesting is that 67 people read the thread and did not post, so there was some interest and now over 400 people have read the thread and a few responded and with a few exceptions (for example Zoidberg) no-one has kept up too date on this. Not their fault - how would they know?
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I have been making my own and modifing them little by little, ongoing changes, hopefully this story will come to an end as I have a boatful of them :)
As they are for personal use and not commercial, I take the liberty of some latitude from rules and standards, especially to favour ease of use, wearing unwearing sleeping in it etc.
Fwiw my last tether has a Kong Tango snap hook, though it does not snag, is certified, blabla, I am not totally happy as it is too big, I would change it with a smaller size one. Also making some tries for ways to modify the tether length, still working for a way of climbing back onboard alone, I have seen a couple of interesting experiments.
Harness side I am toying with an above sternum attachment point.


tangoblue.jpg
 
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For my Jackstays, on the bow ends I have a sown loop which is attached by making a Cow Hitch through a deck eye pad, on the aft ends I have sown on 'Quick Chain Repair Links' to a mizzen deck eye pad

p-72.jpg
 
LadyInBed said:
For my Jackstays, on the bow ends I have a sown loop which is attached by making a Cow Hitch through a deck eye pad, on the aft ends I have sown on 'Quick Chain Repair Links' to a mizzen deck eye pad

p-72.jpg
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You don't make it clear, but I hope you've bought links certified as PPE and not the cheapest galvanised POS you could find in the local hardware shop!
 
Neeves said:
What is interesting is that 67 people read the thread and did not post, so there was some interest and now over 400 people have read the thread and a few responded and with a few exceptions (for example Zoidberg) no-one has kept up too date on this. Not their fault - how would they know?
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Simply, by taking an interest and learning from well-publicised incidents. Reading MAIB bulletins and reports is a good start.
 
Tethers that meet ISO 12401 are recommended. Also hooks meeting the via ferrata standard (UIAA 121 type K). These include The Kong Tango hook shown above and the Wichard Proline, and many hooks made for via ferrata climbing and industry. ICW Wales (an old UK company) makes some nice ones (SH 901 and SH 903), similar to Kong.

The ISO tether standard includes a body weight drop test, which older designs generally failed. By the way, climbing slings will ALSO generally fail this test, because they are NOT designed to be used separately, only in combination with an elastic rope. It is well know that it is dangerous for a climber to clip directly to a sling if there is an slack in the system, and never to move upwards while so anchored. People have died that way.

The Short coming of the ISO standard is that it does not include requirements for side load, nose hoking (sling caught in gate), or a force requirement on the gate being pressed open. These requirements have existed for climbing and industrial gear for many decades.

The original Gibb hook, and the patent were drop forged. Google it. Then someone go the bright idea that it would be lighter and cheaper to stamp them out of stainless. That removed all lateral strength. The original Gibb was a safe design. Then it was ruined.

As for the jacklines, they need to be strong, low stretch, and UV resistant if left rigged. Although the World Sailing standard give one-size-fits-all specs, they longer the boat, the stronger and lower stretch they must be. If you think about tight rope walking, this is obvious. Yes, you can build your own, but there are a lot of ways to do it wrong:
* Nylon climbing webbing is too stretchy and not strong enough (it is meant to be used doubled).
* Sewing to full strength is very difficult. Knots weaken 35-50%.
* Webbing does not last in the sun. But does it make sense to be frogging around with jacklines in the dark or in a rising storm? Not really. So I choose something that will last in the sun.
* Rope and cable are a prolem underfoot. Covering them with webbing helps.
* Attaching them to cleats is all wrong. The last place the jackline should be is the far ends of the boat and the edge of the deck. Kind of obvious, but cleats are easy... just wrong. That is another reason the Clipper tether failed. The jackline was the wrong place.
 
thinwater said:
Tethers that meet ISO 12401 are recommended. Also hooks meeting the via ferrata standard (UIAA 121 type K). These include The Kong Tango hook shown above and the Wichard Proline, and many hooks made for via ferrata climbing and industry. ICW Wales (an old UK company) makes some nice ones (SH 901 and SH 903), similar to Kong.
....
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The WIchard Proline look good. MIghty costly on US and Australian sites - but how much does a life cost?

I cannot seem to find a UK supplier. Any suggestion as the to the cheapest supplier?

TudorSailor
 
tudorsailor said:
Do you mean the Kong KKE https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/f8-ferrata-kit/p319-kke
View attachment 75817

TudorSailor
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No, that is a via ferrata tether. Different. The pouch contains an energy absorption device. Also, most sailors want a clip at the chest end (although debate will rage about quick release vs. not).

https://www.landfallnavigation.com/kong-orc-tether-double.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAkfriBRD1ARIsAASKsQKgwOTgCfjiXxOTn2zuhQ7In8FYNwXyBWXYTxydOGA7EK_nx6zspx8aApUgEALw_wcB
 
To quote Thinwater:



”The original Gibb hook, and the patent were drop forged. Google it. Then someone go the bright idea that it would be lighter and cheaper to stamp them out of stainless. That removed all lateral strength. The original Gibb was a safe design. Then it was ruined.”

Two Gibb hooks. The one on the yellow tether is from the 1970s, in fact it is from my original Hayward* harness, and the one on the blue tether is 1990s.

I think I trust the one on the yellow tether. Having two original Hayward harnesses, I’ve still got four of them...



* The safety harness, tether and jack lines were invented by Peter Hayward, the father of today’s yacht delivery business, after he lost a crew member overboard. Then Musto had the idea of including the harness in the oilskin jacket, and soneone replaced the original wire jack stays with webbing so it didn’t roll under foot, and here we are. I confess to still liking wire jack stays, rigged along the centre line, where you are less likely to tread on them.

I regret that Peter Hayward’s name has been forgotten, considering how many lives he saved.
 
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Minn said:
...Two Gibb hooks. The one on the yellow tether is from the 1970s, in fact it is from my original Hayward* harness, and the one on the blue tether is 1990s.

I think I trust the one on the yellow tether. Having two original Hayward harnesses, I’ve still got four of them...
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There's another point here - about trusting 1970's webbing and stitching. I wouldn't.
 
Minn said:
To quote Thinwater:



”The original Gibb hook, and the patent were drop forged. Google it. Then someone go the bright idea that it would be lighter and cheaper to stamp them out of stainless. That removed all lateral strength. The original Gibb was a safe design. Then it was ruined.”

Two Gibb hooks. The one on the yellow tether is from the 1970s, in fact it is from my original Hayward* harness, and the one on the blue tether is 1990s.

I think I trust the one on the yellow tether. Having two original Hayward harnesses, I’ve still got four of them...



* The safety harness, tether and jack lines were invented by Peter Hayward, the father of today’s yacht delivery business, after he lost a crew member overboard. Then Musto had the idea of including the harness in the oilskin jacket, and soneone replaced the original wire jack stays with webbing so it didn’t roll under foot, and here we are. I confess to still liking wire jack stays, rigged along the centre line, where you are less likely to tread on them.

I regret that Peter Hayward’s name has been forgotten, considering how many lives he saved.
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Exactly! The original design was strong and clever. The new design is, well, cheaper to make. I think it is that simple.

BTW, the old style Wichard hook, though beastly difficult to open with cold hands, has stouter dimensions and does not share the same strength failings as the Spinlock hook. It is strong. That said, the sharp edges still cause it to fail any climbing standard, because they can cut ropes under high load; there is a radius requirement. I presume that is part of what prompted Wichard to develop the Porline hook, which is very nice (I use Proline, Kong Tang, and ICS Wals hooks--they are all very strong and very good with gloves. Yes, they are larger, which means they will not fit smaller pad eyes, BUT they are large enough to clip bow rails, which is a great use for your second leg.

Regarding jackstays (jacklines is the US), one may boats they can run along cabin side, along chines, and in other places where they are not walked on. I encourage people to experiment with many temporary arrangements, until they find that which is neither underfoot, too near the edge (or bow or stern), nor in the way. Practice in light weather until you have something that does not tangle you up.
 
penberth3 said:
Simply, by taking an interest and learning from well-publicised incidents. Reading MAIB bulletins and reports is a good start.
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Part of my point is/was - the Clipper incident might have been well publicised but the investigation, not (well publicised). As far as I am aware Thinwater is the only person to have investigated and it did not make it into the 'anglo saxon' yachting press. The MAIB is well aware of Thinwater's investigation as is the Clipper organisation - but neither have made mention, yet - and its months since the incident. I don't know if Clipper changed their hook part way through the last event - once they had Thinwater's results.

My guess is those in the UK might be already preparing for offshore work this summer - it seems an opportune time to raise the issue.

It also shows the value of rigorous investigative work by people who know something about the topic. Too often we have the armchair guru repeating an unsubstantied mantra. The very sad part is that a man's life was lost on a Clipper yacht - and perfectly adequate equipment was freely available and known to be more than adequate..

It merits repetition - but why the manufacturers did not pick this up is a real worry.

Why the topic has slipped through the PBO net is another mystery.

Jonathan
 
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