Such a Classic but No info! - Crabber 22

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swanny

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I could be wrong but after trawling the web I have failed to find few comments, reviews etc regarding the Cornish Crabber 22. After selling Cocoro I'm now luxuriating in looking for the smaller, more manageable boat I should have bought seven years ago. Yes, I know, the reasons for selling her were not entirely linked to size but also a lack of available time. But a boat that can trail behind me (albeit ponderously) is a less guilty option that I'm considering compared to one that languishes in an expensive marina alone.

I've just paid for a back copy of Watercraft which I believe to have a review of the '22. I've chatted at the boatshow with Cornish Crabbers and while nice, it felt a little reticent regarding performance. I've never had a Gaff rigged boat and I don't expect it to be a close winded racer but is there anyone out there who can attempt to tell me how she sales? Until I have had a 'Probefahrt' in the early spring I am simply gagging for opinion! How tender are they? If at all. I've heard they can tack through a hundred degrees. Is this realistic or pessimistic? Is it possible to get closer? Also, and I hesitate to ask this because I get the feeling that asking 'how fast' Gaff rigged, shallow draft, long keelers can go can make me look like I'm missing the point, but what kind of speeds have people seen? Really, I'd like to know.

I have been blown away by the solidity, fit and feel of the boat and in spite of the lack of headroom, I could see myself spending reasonable amounts of time relaxing down below. The size of the bunks couldn't fit my 6'3 post christmas frame more perfectly. The Crabber 22 has been promoted from 'Pretty but heavy and looks a little cramped' to 'I'll park it in the lounge in the winter and spend five months staring at it'.

Any owners or knowledgable folk out there who can sustain me until Spring?
 
Depends what you mean by classic ! Probably performs adequately, but all of their boats I've seen have cr** sails & kit, and not so impressive on fit-out when one has a proper look.

The one thing they do which really impressed me was the salesman keeping a straight face while saying the prices !
 
They are very expensive. You can buy a used real gaffer for much less. I had a Mk1 Crabber for many years. I loved it but it didnt sail well.
My Heard 28 will sail at 30deg to the apparent wind and is a real boat.
Some for sale here on the GALA website ....
http://galawebsite.co.uk/
That's my boat top right.
 
Mmmm, I know what you mean about the prices. I've had a good hunt around lately for boats around the 22/23ft range which are trailerable/transportable with shallow draft. I'm looking for something that stands out from the crowd, which doesn't look like a bloated jelly mould to maximise volume, which will give me a 'Big Boat' feel on the water and has nice details. I got the impression that the Crabber 22 has nice 'details'. It has a similar feeling of solidity which I enjoyed with my last boat also. I really like the Swallow Boats Baycruiser 23 which I am told will sail extremely well if kept light enough. However, I need a little more from the interior than the BC23 offers. It's not off the list but it has slipped a little. The Northbeach 24 is great, but too heavy at 2700kg plus trailer. It doesn't have to be a new boat but not an old one. I want to enjoy a boat in very good condition this time rather than renovating one. The Yarmouth 23 is also lovely but again too heavy. I don't want an AWB so that rules out most of the current trailerable boats that I have found.

One oddity which in actual fact I do quite like is the Haber 660 C2 Cutter. I saw one at the Dussledorf show last year and had to admit it ticked a lot of boxes in spite of it's controversial looks. The designer has gone for headroom but instead of attaching a high pressure hose to a sealed hull and deck to achieve it, they've given it a kind of Fisher Style look which I have to admit........kinda appeals to me. It feels very solid too and at 1800kg it's within trailerable scope.

All the other Modern Classics seem to miss the mark either by weight, style or poor scale. I thought the Crabbers had a strong following but looking at the association website it appears poorly supported. If your out there, I would love to hear from all you Crabber 22 owners.
 
If you want a trailer sailer then the Crabber 22 will no doubt be enjoyable for you.
It's pretty and will stand out from the crowd.
Lots of dosh though !
I'm sure you will find a nice one, enjoy. Gaffers are great, even Crabbers !
 
Hi Dylan,

Is the MkI Crabber 22 so different to the MkII? What are differences that you know of? Hull, rig etc.

I've looked at the Heard 28, nice but too long for me. The Heard 23 is nice too but at close five ton's, it's not a contender. I like the classic looks of the older boats but not the maintenance involved. Even the wooden masts of the Crabber have me thinking about the work! But at least the structure is modern and easy to maintain?

I really like the Crabber but it's not important to me that it's a Gaffer. I see there is one for sale which is Sloop rigged with an alu mast. Interesting but the interior is the older interior which isn't as appealing to me as the newer layout. Perhaps that one is a MkI?

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=49306&url=

Let me know what you think Dylan, thanks.
 
I had the original Crabber 24, which had a GRP hull and the rest was wood. This was quite different from the modern all GRP Crabbers. The 22 is a much later design.
The new ones will be low maintenance.
I cant see the point in having a Crabber 22 with a marconi rig myself. Surely the whole point of it is that it's a gaffer?
You need to be able to trail it so the Heards are unfortunately not for you.My Heard is very low maintenance. GRP hull and the rest untreated teak. The only maintenance is for the spars, the same as for the modern Crabbers.
There are a number of nice looking boats out there but not many you can tow on a trailer.
I guess you have to decide what's important.
I hope you find the right boat.

For the price of that 22 in your link you can buy a Heard 28, an 8 ton real gaffer that will take you anywhere and have loads of room below. I know it's not what you want. Crazy money that 22 even if it is the market price.
 
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swanny said:
....... if you're out there, I would love to hear from all you Crabber 22 owners.
Click to expand...
Contact with owners would be useful but maybe not always objective. A good objective starting point could be magazine test reports. Cornish Crabbers have links to them on their website but the links don't work at the moment (maybe copyright problems?) The test reports appear to be:
Boat Test - Sailing Magazine USA
A Good Day At Black Rock - Watercraft Magazine
Those magazines and websites presumably have a section for ordering copies of past articles.

[I had a Tamarisk 24 for ten years. GRP hull, hence less maintenance than a wooden gaffer (using breathable woodstain on the mast/spars in any spell of fine weather, varnish requiring too much dedication and too many coats). Splendid seakeeping and a fair turn of speed, 5-6 knots. Gaff rig very versatile, especially in bumpy weather. Quicker than many equivalent bermudans off wind and pointing higher than many bilge keeled bermudans. The Tamarisk 24 is too heavy for you to trail but my point is grp gaffers as a breed make plenty of sense for safe fun cruising in something a bit different.]
 
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Crabber 22 review in Sailing magazine (USA)

Found it! The test report which I don't think you have yet, or you haven't said so. It was tricky to find because its bizarre title is Hunter 45CC...... I really can't think why.

On the link below - 'Sailing' magazine doesn't seem to charge £7 as UK magazines do:

http://www.sailingmagazine.net/boat-test/426-hunter-45cc-fagan


HAPPY READING...........
 
I have (half of) a Cornish Yawl. Not dissimilar to the Crabber 22 I imagine, just an extra 2 feet on the hull and a second mast. Mine's an early 90s example.

I love the look, find the rig very easy to get along with, and having a boat that can dry out has opened a whole new book to me. Down below is compact but for one or two people works very nicely and doesn't feel cramped. Off the wind in smooth water she feels really quick - I've creamed up Southampton Water overtaking similar-sized white boats. That big-bellied gaff main really pulls on a broad reach, plus on the yawl I have a 35-foot sailplan over my 24 foot hull. In those conditions I can see a steady 6.5 knots, occasionally touching 7.

On the downside, my boat's windward performance could fairly be described as poor. What doesn't help is that mine is the centreboardless version, with the normal shallow keel plus some ineffectual bilge plates bolted on the sides. I think Crabbers gave up on this arrangement a while ago - I've only seen centreboards advertised. I haven't measured the tacking angle, but it's wide, and even at that she won't go very fast. 3 knots or so? - I don't really look :) (doesn't help that the previous owner inexplicably mounted the speed display in the cabin). Even less if it's choppy. May not help that my mainsail is old and probably fuller than it ought to be.

I wouldn't say she's overly tender, although I haven't ever sailed any other yacht under 30 feet so have nothing to compare against. Varnishing the spars could be an issue (this is the first winter I've attempted it) but to be honest the problem is more in finding a place and time to do it than the work itself, which is relatively easy and satisfying. Newer boats have Cetol or something like that instead of varnish anyway, which is easier to care for.

Pete
 
THANKS Boatropes! Enjoyed that article. I couldn't find it myself. I've paid for the back issue of the other one but it's not downloadable.

It's a nice piece to read but typically still leaves me wanting. They describe the winds as extremely light (5 to 10 knots) but then go on to say they estimated sailing at around 5 knots. In light winds I would be happy with that in such a small, heavy boat! Later though they say it's not the 'fastest' pocket cruiser on the water. Why would you go on a test sail without some way of measuring the speed? I know these boats are not racers but even cruisers are interested in the progress they are making?

I'd still love to hear from any MkII Crabber 22 owners. I do appreciate that like the size of the one that got away, owners tend to embellish their stories a little but I can factor that in I guess.

I feel sure that this little boat is capable of much more than gunkholing and when you read of the exploits of others in Cat B and even Cat C boats in rather less qualified boats, I feel sure you could cross oceans! (not that 'I' would!).

The price issue keeps popping up I see. There is no real justice in the pricing of boats as far as I can see. Something that doesn't come from a busy production line is going to cost much more and when you factor in the finish, I consider it to be what you have to pay. It seems the smaller and better built it is, the more it costs. The unique combination of strong construction, medium displacement and trailerability has a price. I just sold a 36ft Contest which had at least a 100k invested in it, could take you around the world safely and give a great sense of ownership. I sold it for half that. But, to buy something smaller, newer, of similar quality I will have to pay more than I got for the Contest. Such is life. But yes - Ouch!
 
in rather less qualified boats, I feel sure you could cross oceans!

I'm not sure what you think 'less qualified boats' are; remind me, has this Crabber thingie even got any guardrails ?
 
I'm not sure what you think 'less qualified boats' are; remind me, has this Crabber thingie even got any guardrails ?[/QUOTE]

Mike Perham's Tide 28? For example.

Safety railings and pushpit are options on the Crabber 22 which according to the bumpf, turns it into a Cat 'B' vessel. My point is, there are many Cat B vessels out there but when you look at the vessel statistics and popular opinion regarding what makes a vessel seaworthy (apart from the skippers talents of course) then I would have to say I would rather be in the Crabber than an AWB trailer sailer. That's what attracts me to this boat, it's credentials on paper. I just need to get some feedback on how she performs.

I know tales of performance are a bit like Anchor Tests. Conditions, who is helming, quality of sales, rig set up etc make it very subjective but I still believe there is something of value in someone telling me that in 12knots of apparent wind with a small chop we regularly manage to maintain between 5 to 5.5 knots on a close reach.

I have sail crazy friends who own a Cafe 27 (yes, it was them who bought it) after every sail with them they launched themselves into my cockpit, flushed with vigour shouting excitedly "8.75 knots SWANNY!!!! 8.75 KNOTS!!!" I know their boat and it is a very good sailing machine but I also know their excitement masks the fact that this speed was, perhaps a brief affair on the front of a wave but to them, their boat is capable of sailing (not surfing!) at speeds of 8.75 knots.
 
Crabber 22 speed, maybe

swanny said:
......I still believe there is something of value in someone telling me that in 12knots of apparent wind with a small chop we regularly manage to maintain between 5 to 5.5 knots on a close reach. .
Click to expand...

Speed in given conditions seems to be high up your checklist, rightly so. It's a pity the two published reports say so little and that no Crabber 22 owner has surfaced in this thread.
You could get a fair indication of speed by working backwards from maximum hull speed. In a good breeze she should cruise easily at around 85% of that figure. Maybe more if her bottom is squeeky clean. For light winds you'd need to know that she isn't under canvassed, but Crabbers themselves will have the SAD ratio (Sail area - Displacement) which you could compare with the SAD of other good light wind performers.

My own formula for max hull speed is:
SQRT.LWL x (LWL/BEAM/2)
meaning the square root of waterline length, times (waterline length, divided by waterline beam, then divided by 2)
It's my own variant of the ~1.3x x Sqrt waterline length which so many talk about, but mine seems to more accurately assess any boat by introducing beam as a very influential factor. My tin helmet is now on, waiting to be shouted down or enlightened by anoraks and design engineers alike...
 
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My first boat was a Hunter Minstrel(23ft gunter rigged).We had alot of fun with it and trailed it around.You could also consider the Hunter Liberty the cat boat version .They are alot less money than a Crabber.
 
A. Couple of year ago I owned what was then a mark 1 Crabber 22. It was fitted with a feathering prop but otherwise standard . I sailed it predominantly on the River Orwell. It would point very easily at 30 degrees leaving many white larger boats in my wake close to the wind or abaft the beam which was its fastest point of sail. The only reason I got rid was the 3/4 length peak cabin berths. I then bought a Norfolk Smuggler with lots of solid teak woodwork that gave it an extra 700 kgs of weight over a standard built boat. Needless to say it was a fantastic built boat but too heavy for normal sailing. So I Have just managed to find a mark 11 Crabber which has the forward bulkhead moved to the rear by about 18" making the double bed long enough for two adults to lay down without putting their knees under their chins . A great improvement and I am once again looking forward tomsilingm

I've just paid for a back copy of Watercraft which I believe to have a review of the '22. I've chatted at the boatshow with Cornish Crabbers and while nice, it felt a little reticent regarding performance. I've never had a Gaff rigged boat and I don't expect it to be a close winded racer but is there anyone out there who can attempt to tell me how she sales? Until I have had a 'Probefahrt' in the early spring I am simply gagging for opinion! How tender are they? If at all. I've heard they can tack through a hundred degrees. Is this realistic or pessimistic? Is it possible to get closer? Also, and I hesitate to ask this because I get the feeling that asking 'how fast' Gaff rigged, shallow draft, long keelers can go can make me look like I'm missing the point, but what kind of speeds have people seen? Really, I'd like to know.

I have been blown away by the solidity, fit and feel of the boat and in spite of the lack of headroom, I could see myself spending reasonable amounts of time relaxing down below. The size of the bunks couldn't fit my 6'3 post christmas frame more perfectly. The Crabber 22 has been promoted from 'Pretty but heavy and looks a little cramped' to 'I'll park it in the lounge in the winter and spend five months staring at it'.

Any owners or knowledgable folk out there who can sustain me until Spring?[/QUOTE]
 
Also only experienced Crabber 22 on display at the boat show; I'm not sure they are even offering this anymore as they have the Shrimper 21 and the completely new 24.
The Crabber 17 I used to own sailed much like a heavy dinghy; felt pretty fast on a reach in decent wind and quite easily overpowered - it wouldn't point vey high and sometimes got caught in stays (terminology suits the boat!). They are expensive but compared to what? Have you seen the price of a 49er or International Moth. Construction wise very solid although I would quibble with using a gate valve on the cockpit drain. Seems to me a lot of guff gets written on forums like this about Crabbers like "they still use polyester resin"; well yes so do HR, Rustler etc.
 
To the OP, have you seen the Demon Yachts Kite? Traditionally styled and fast! I have to declare an interest as I occasionally do work for Demon Yachts - but they're cracking boats. Lifting keel so not directly comparable to the CC 22 but will sail rings around the competition and way less grief to tow.
 
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