Studland: YM reports on the facts.

[KenMcCulloch]

Depends whether you think unrestrained development and pollution are natural, I suppose.

Quite so. When I first started sailing in Wardie Bay in the Firth of Forth in the early 60s we used to sail past floating items of various kinds from the untreated sewage that was being discharged a couple of hundred yards out from LWMS. Capsizes were fortunately rare.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It depends whether you love nature or not.

I do wonder if the more aggressive attacks on conservation come from those whose sailing is marina to marina (with the occasional daring day anchored off Studland) and who have little liking for undeveloped and rural places.

 

[jac]

In some ways (and I feel horrible for saying this) the flooding on the Somerset levels and around the Thames has done us a favour.

It has given extensive publicity to the activities of the Conservationists and the damage they have caused by taking a biased approach. Politicians (being politicians) need someone to blame and who better than presumably more left wing tree huggers in the EA.

Given the austerity still required, we could assist by giving our elected officials the info of wasted money spent by career conservationists together with the suggestion of cut this money being wasted on studies that are of dubious scientific merit and either use to reduce deficit of invest in improvements to dredging in Somerset / Thames or other activity to help depressed coastal regions.

Is that information available anywhere so we can share with our dear representatives.

 

[Nicholas123]

I do wonder if the more aggressive attacks on conservation come from those whose sailing is marina to marina (with the occasional daring day anchored off Studland) and who have little liking for undeveloped and rural places.

I think it's more likely that they don't even notice that nature exists.For my part I am more concerned about being banned from some of the little used anchorages I prefer because some grasping ecomentalist wants to make a name for himself or some personal wealth because of a little known & far from threatened mollusc.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Given the austerity still required, we could assist by giving our elected officials the info of wasted money spent by career conservationists together with the suggestion of cut this money being wasted on studies that are of dubious scientific merit and either use to reduce deficit of invest in improvements to dredging in Somerset / Thames or other activity to help depressed coastal regions.

So instead we should spend even more taxpayers' money to protect those who choose to live or farm on flood plains from the consequences of their decisions?

 

[jac]

So instead we should spend even more taxpayers' money to protect those who choose to live or farm on flood plains from the consequences of their decisions?

No

Spend the same money as we're spending now, just on more useful things.

So maintaining man made landscapes that had been mainly flood free for decades rather than converting them to a state they were in hundreds of years ok.
Investing in coastal regeneration in run down fishing villages.

Not funding studies with no scientific merit

 

[Sailfree]

As I hope to soon be based in Poole - well done "oldharry" and keep up the good work.

Your efforts are appreciated.

I have come to the conclusion over many years that if the "treehuggers" are for it you can never be wrong in opposing it as that will be your logical position once you know the scientific facts!!

I just wish we could ban these "treehuggers" to living somewhere with no roads, cars, planes, petrol, electricity or gas (or anywhere to anchor!!)and let them scrape a living with manual farming.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Message to Old Harry:

Last year we sailed round from the East Coast to Poole for the first time, planning to stop for lunch at Studland Bay. In the end we stayed off an on for 11 days. It's thanks to your groups' efforts that we all have an opportunity to enjoy this and many other beautiful spots.

Please keep up the good work, my young children adore places like this and you are keeping them open for their generation; any criticism on this thread is in my opinion mealy mouthed and from one or two who can't see an opinion without wanting to disagree with it.

The fact that your work is based in objective fact rather than emotional scaremongering or invectice is hugely to your credit. From all the Lazy Kipper family - thanks.

 

[Seajet]

Lazy Kipper,

too right !

I have seen the amount of hard work Old Harry - and the other members of BORG do, and it would amaze most people.

People have got OBE's for a lot less...

 

[jac]

Message to Old Harry:

Last year we sailed round from the East Coast to Poole for the first time, planning to stop for lunch at Studland Bay. In the end we stayed off an on for 11 days. It's thanks to your groups' efforts that we all have an opportunity to enjoy this and many other beautiful spots.

Please keep up the good work, my young children adore places like this and you are keeping them open for their generation; any criticism on this thread is in my opinion mealy mouthed and from one or two who can't see an opinion without wanting to disagree with it.

The fact that your work is based in objective fact rather than emotional scaremongering or invectice is hugely to your credit. From all the Lazy Kipper family - thanks.

+1

Should be nominated for an award.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Which is precisely why I think it is a very bad idea indeed for members of the recreational boating world (not BORG) to express hysterical criticism of conservation as a whole and of conservationists en masse.

I wasn't aware that we did. Almost all the posts on this topic here come from a conservationism-is-good point of view.

It just the career-builders who want to drive around in a paid-for Land Rover with a nifty logo on the door, that come in for criticism.

 

[oldharry]

Thanks Lazy Kipper and others for your support.

I have been involved in and followed the Studland debate ever since Galadriel (a fellow founder BORG member) first came across a report demanding boats should be banned from Studland in 2008, and highlighted it in this forum. I think I would have run a million miles away from it if I had known where it would all lead! When MMO put my interest on an official footing in 2010, and BORG kicked off I had to decide which way I wanted to go. The protest way -standing on the side and shouting the odds, or wade in and train myself up to a level where I could communicate sensibly with the 'experts'. It was obvious very soon that these guys were arguing from a very one sided stand, which basically was 'we are the experts and you do not challenge what we say' As it was very obvious to me just how one sided and flawed they often were, I had to learn how to do just that - how to beat them at their own game, working from inside.

Yes it has involved a huge amount of work. There is rarely a day goes by when there is not some query, report or announcement to be dealt with. I have had to make myself an expert on the morphology of eelgrass, the life cycles, breeding habits and distribution of various types of seahorses, and a range of marine wrigglies I had never even heard of. I have had to study up on marine pollutant mechanisms and their effects on marine life. I have also had to learn how the politics of it all works. I have sat through hundreds of hours of meetings endlessly discussing the fate of the Sea Fan anemone (the what?) or whatever. I have read literally thousands of pages of obscure technical reports and publications which I had to be able to understand and discuss intelligently with the people who in some cases wrote them. In the middle of a holiday I had very quickly to learn how to present a formal submission to a House of Commons select Committee, then sit down and do it from memory because i was on a remote Scottish island at the time! (It was accepted, and placed on record, too!). It was all worth it because now i can hold my own in almost any debate I find myself in.

So I am not surprised when I see the effects on the Somerset levels, nor am I impressed when somebody (not just you Jumbleduck) tries to tell me it is for the ultimate good that homes and lives have been destroyed when I know it is the ineptness of the career Consevationists who have generated much of the dissaray by planting their pet theories without really understanding the overall effect on the environment. The history of conservation is littered with disastrous failures resulting from somebody's pet theory gaining 'respectability'. There also some brilliant and key breakthroughs which HAVE improved the environment immeasurably, and made the natural world a better place than it was

I am at heart a Conservationist. It grieves me deeply to see species I have known and loved in serious decline. It angers me when year on year I no longer see Dolphins playing round my boat in UK waters because they are being killed off by modern fishing techniques. I am infuriated when I am told my anchor is 'destroying the environment' because someone is trying to make a name as an ecologist at our expense, when I see bl**dy great beam trawlers raking the seabed to a depth of a foot or more towing 4 tons or more of trawl around with all the finesse of a motorway construction bulldozer, and smashing everything that gets in its way. It makes me sick when I see pollutants pouring in to the sea whether accidentally or on purpose. I am absolutely behind those who complain at the destruction of the rain forest, the continued illegal poaching of endangered and beautiful animals, and so on.

I just dont understand why there is so much fuss about a tiny handful of seahorses in Studland, when elsewhere they are being harvested by the 1/4ton! Why the h*ll are the seahorse huggers not worried about that? They say they are, but they do damn all about it. Studland is a much softer target, and one which will make their 'name' so much more easily.

I cannot afford the luxury of yelling the odds at the Conservationists people like Seajet attack, because exactly as Lazy Kipper points out, I have chosen to work from inside and build up a credible reputation as spokesman for a group that speaks common sense. If I did chuck the bricks I often feel like throwing, it would at a stroke destroy the credibility we in BORG have worked for years to build up.

Seajet pulled out of BORG because he felt too restricted by this policy, and wanted to be able to say what he thinks without risking the main thrust of what we are trying to do. I am quite happy with that, and fully support what he says (even if i cant say so!). He and I discuss the situation regularly, and he knows he can run his ideas past me, as can anyone who wants to go further with this. Cant promise I know all the answers, I dont! But as they say, I (probably) know a man who can!

But the more I see of the way these guys work to build their own little empires, the more convinced I am that I am doing the right thing challenging them, and persuading experts like Marlynspike to get involved and use their expertise to expose the blatant skullduggery that goes on in the name of Conservationism.

These guys have GOT TO BE STOPPED, before they do more damage.

An award? No thanks. I just want to see MCZs which have half a chance of actually doing what they set out to do - to sustainably support the marine life round our coasts, and not just to make a name for one or another conservationist. I want to see conservation which is designed to ensure that nature continues to thrive alongside human and commercial interests. The marine environment is a living, breathing constantly developing organism, and shutting it up and 'managing' it so that it is carefully preserved as a sort of National Trust style snapshot of how things used to be is Preservation, not Conservation.

And is there REALLY a sea creature called an 'Ocean Quahog'? Its in all the lists Its amazing what is down there under our keels! I have a lovely mental picture of what it looks like - dont spoil it by sending me a pic of a real one! I have to find something to laugh about in all this.

I'm not apologising for having a bit of a rant. i think I earned it. And I want more people who feel strongly about it all to get wise, get involved and get on with it.

 

[rotrax]

Thank you for that concise precis of your work.

Thank you for that work, thank you VERY much!

 

[Nicholas123]

Can't imagine a better man for the job than oldharry.Brilliant!

 

[Seajet]

From the Daily Wail today;

" Up to its neck in criticism following its abject performance over the recent floods, the Environment Agency is now under fire for being a bloated quango.

Official figures show that last year it spent £1,207 million compared with £1,166 million in 2012.

It ended 2013 with £95 million in the bank.

Shouldn't that money have been spent dredging rivers ?"

-------

Well, dredging aside, if you're going to have a quango, go for it and have one with funding like this !

 

[Malo37]

Where is Studland Bay anyway, never heard of it ?

 

[Tranona]

Where is Studland Bay anyway, never heard of it ?

Well, I can see it from my bedroom window, so it is definitely where it should be!