Studland: YM reports on the facts.

oldharry

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YM has picked up the Studland story and given BORG a full page in the current edition (April 2014) on our recent success in showing up the poor science behind the Studland recommendations. DEFRA announced that Studland, along with Priory Bay, Osborne Bay, Alum Bay and Bembridge are on the list being considered for the next ‘Tranche’ of 37 MCZs to be considered next year. We are working closely with RYA to ensure that the importance of these places to the Leisure Boating community is taken fully in to account in any decisions about their status.

YM has given a very fair account of the ‘bias and errors’ DEFRA found after we pointed it out, in what was being hailed as a benchmark report about Studland, and demonstrates once again just how important it is that the scientific arguments being put forward are based on fact and reality, and is not just what the conservationists want us to believe. It also highlights just how high handed some of these recommendations are, with decisions and policies being pushed through on the flimsiest of evidence, and with a blatant disregard for the needs and wishes of local communities.

We see this very clearly in Studland, where a large body of evidence which could have been supplied by local residents who have lived by and used the Bay every day sometimes for 60 years or more was not only ignored, but dismissed as ‘serendipitous’ - the actual word used in the reports. Had that been allowed it would have become abundantly clear that the eelgrass in the bay and the wildlife it supports has co-existed with the visiting boats for over 60 years, and is in fact now in better health that at any previous time. However this does not fit the claim that boats are destroying the eelgrass environment, so it was disallowed, and apart from isolated aerial photographs of the bay at odd times since 1953, there is no permitted data to suggest that the current claims are spurious.

How convenient! And how typical of modern conservationism which seems quite terrified that nature can not possibly survive unless it is ‘managed’, and preserved. Or maybe they are frightened that unless they parcel it all up in neat carefully controlled reserves where it can be supervised, managed and controlled, it might all get out of control and develop in to something new… rather as it has done for the last 400 million years.

Of COURSE we need to be responsible in caring for the environment, and ensuring that we do not damage it irreparably, but it seems to me that modern conservationism goes way beyond this and seeks to actually modify the environment so that it can be controlled and preserved quite unnaturally.

Consultation on the next Tranche of MCZs will not happen until 2015, but BORG will continue to be busy examining proposals, and exposing the kind of disgraceful pseudo science we have seen in the Studland reports.

Thanks YM for highlighting this battle.

EDIT There are three major reports on Studland: The Seastar Survey which concluded quite categorically there was no evidence of a link between anchoring and the condition of the Eelgrass bed. This was promptly discrdited by natural England (although they were involved with producing it) as being 'insufficiently robust'. The MAIA report published last spring, which was seen as the benchmark report on Studland and which because of BORGs complaint has now been withdrawn for re-assessment, and BORGs own report available on our website http://boatownersresponse.org.uk/Eelgrass-recolonisation.pdf and supporting evidence. Two of the three reports deny any link between anchoring and damage, and the third which set out to prove it has been withdrawn. Interesting the Seastar report still stands in spite of attempts to discredit it.
 
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Searush

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If only the Govt would listen to the arguments and statistics over the NHS rather than blindly pursuing their ideologically driven policy of hiving it off. It's the same sort of problem, an idea followed thro regardless of the facts information & advice of those affected.

This is just one skirmish in what is likely to be a long war against those who decide that they know what is best for us.
 

JumbleDuck

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We see this very clearly in Studland, where a large body of evidence which could have been supplied by local residents who have lived by and used the Bay every day sometimes for 60 years or more was not only ignored, but dismissed as ‘serendipitous’ - the actual word used in the reports.

The report was clearly written by someone who had no idea what "serendipitous" means, but liked the syllable count. Do you think they meant "anecdotal"?
 

MarlynSpyke

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Conservationists fingerprints over Studland report errors, Somerset & Thames floods

This story shows how how conservationist and environmentalist “experts” in unelected quangos, like the Environment Agency and Natural England, are in powerful positions where they give official advice on Government policies. And it shows that their advice is not always correct.

From their positions of power in these quangos, they impose their eco-obsessions on a nearly defenceless public, for they are the paid “experts” whose views carry so much weight, and whose technical jargon is incomprehensible to many.

Because of this, they can solemnly agree to reports containing rubbish – if a report reinforces their own obsessions, it must be ok, and be good to publish, which is what happened in this case. However in this case, BORG picked up the flaws and dragged them into the light.

It’s not just Marine Conservation Zones – other parts of life in this country are now being ruled by quangos full of conservationists/environmentalists in the Environment Agency and Natural England. Between them recently they have

(a) engineered the floods on the Somerset levels by deliberately flooding areas to benefit “wetland habitats”, see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/fl...erset-Levels-was-deliberately-engineered.html

(b) exacerbated flooding in at least Somerset and the Thames Valley by putting a stop to dredging (dredging upsets the mud habitat, tut tut) – see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26521677 and watch the video – it’s a shocking tale, well worth looking at, I’m surprised and pleased that the BBC actually broadcast it. And if anyone thinks I’m exaggerating about the “mud habitat” just consider that one of the conservation objectives for proposed Marine Conservation Zones on the north coast of the Isle of Wight is – wait for it – “Subtidal Mud”! We’re just waiting for them to claim that anchors upset the mud.

( c) some like Monbiot are trying to stop upland sheep farmers grazing sheep in parts of the Lake District in order to restore prehistoric habitats! (Telegraph “Weekend” magazine March 8th)

(d) and in the marine Conservation Zone process, they are now trying to take over the seabed for various habitats and creepie-crawlies. Some sea horse uber-enthusiasts seized on the entirely false conclusion of the report mentioned in the YM story suggesting the eelgrass beds were “fragmenting” (they are not) and fed stuff to the press which resulted in headlines like “Britain's largest colony of precious seahorses has been wiped out after their habitat was destroyed by boat anchors” – a multiple lie which has been repeated on a number of websites.

We should all be aware of what the ranks of environmentalists and conservationists are up to.

http://boatownersresponse.org.uk/
 
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alan_d

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This story shows how how environmentalist “experts” in unelected quangos, like the Environment Agency and Natural England, are in powerful positions where they give official advice on Government policies. And it shows that their advice is not always correct.

From their positions of power in these quangos, they impose their eco-obsessions on a nearly defenceless public, for they are the paid “experts” whose views carry so much weight, and whose technical jargon is incomprehensible to many.

Because of this, they can solemnly agree to reports containing rubbish – if a report reinforces their own obsessions, it must be ok, and be good to publish, which is what happened in this case. However in this case, BORG picked up the flaws and dragged them into the light.

It’s not just Marine Conservation Zones – other parts of life in this country are now being ruled by quangos full of Enviro Mentalists in the Environment Agency and Natural England. Between them recently they have

(a) engineered the floods on the Somerset levels by deliberately flooding areas to benefit “wetland habitats”, see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/fl...erset-Levels-was-deliberately-engineered.html

(b) exacerbated flooding in at least Somerset and the Thames Valley by putting a stop to dredging (dredging upsets the mud habitat, tut tut) – see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26521677 and watch the video – it’s a shocking tale, well worth looking at, I’m surprised and pleased that the BBC actually broadcast it. And if anyone thinks I’m exaggerating about the “mud habitat” just consider that one of the conservation objectives for proposed Marine Conservation Zones on the north coast of the Isle of Wight is – wait for it – “Subtidal Mud”! We’re just waiting for them to claim that anchors upset the mud.

( c) some like Monbiot are trying to stop upland sheep farmers grazing sheep in parts of the Lake District in order to restore prehistoric habitats! (Telegraph “Weekend” magazine March 8th)

(d) and in the marine Conservation Zone process, they are now trying to take over the seabed for various habitats and creepie-crawlies. Some sea horse eco-fanatics seized on the entirely false conclusion of the report mentioned in the YM story suggesting the eelgrass beds were “fragmenting” (they are not) and fed stuff to the press which resulted in headlines like “Britain's largest colony of precious seahorses has been wiped out after their habitat was destroyed by boat anchors” – a multiple lie which has been repeated on a number of websites.

We should all be aware of what the Enviro Mentalists are up to.

http://boatownersresponse.org.uk/

Full Telegraph article URL:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/fl...erset-Levels-was-deliberately-engineered.html

I am sure we* are all opposed to bad science, hysterical or biased reporting or childish name-calling on either side of this debate.

*Well, most of us.
 

MarlynSpyke

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I am sure we* are all opposed to bad science, hysterical or biased reporting or childish name-calling on either side of this debate.

*Well, most of us.

Fair enough. Since I'm trying to make a serious point, I've edited it and toned down some of the language. No doubt, in the tradition of Scuttlebutt, someone will now call me a wimp!
 

oldharry

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The report was clearly written by someone who had no idea what "serendipitous" means, but liked the syllable count. Do you think they meant "anecdotal"?
It was none to easy to work out what ANY of the report actually meant, except they would only accept data from 'known' sources - i.e conservationists and environmentalists.

In other words, keep it all in the club so we get the right results, lads.

I pointed this out when BORG gave evidence the Commons Science and Technology Committee 18 months ago. The comment was accepted, and is logged in the records of the Committee.
 

KenMcCulloch

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It's interesting that when it comes to, say, metallurgy we accept expert advice here from, say, Vyv Cox, or on rigging, advice from John Morris on setting up our spreaders. However when the advice is less welcome and comes from experts who raise difficult questions it's OK to dispute expertise. Just saying, like.
 

Tranona

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However when the advice is less welcome and comes from experts who raise difficult questions it's OK to dispute expertise. Just saying, like.

You are making the assumption here that it is "experts" who are giving the "advice". If that is the case you might revise your opinion if you meet them and ask the source of their "expertise".
 

Seajet

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You are making the assumption here that it is "experts" who are giving the "advice". If that is the case you might revise your opinion if you meet them and ask the source of their "expertise".

Indeed !

A lot of the career conservationists' case was based upon aerial photo's which they claimed to show bare patches ' where the eelgrass had been destroyed by anchors ' - fortunately one of the BORG members is ex- Kodak and qualified in imaging science, so was able to disprove the bogus claims.

Talking of quango's, another place which has been badly hit by them is Pagham Harbour just East of Chichester; since a career conservo miraculously came across a rare - and dead - snail, peoples' homes and businesses are left to flood thanks to the RSPB forbidding work on the sea defences...:rolleyes:
 

oldharry

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It's interesting that when it comes to, say, metallurgy we accept expert advice here from, say, Vyv Cox, or on rigging, advice from John Morris on setting up our spreaders. However when the advice is less welcome and comes from experts who raise difficult questions it's OK to dispute expertise. Just saying, like.

The difference is that people like Vyv Cox or John Morris have long since proved they talk sound common sense based on expert knowledge of their subject. In conservationism we are faced with people who have agendas, and are trying to use their (sometimes questionable) expertise to pull the wool over our eyes. If conservationists were as objective as most of our forum experts there would be no problem.

We all know what happens here on the forums when self styled 'experts' come up with bad advice - often ending in threads being blocked! Very very few forumites are working a political agenda except occasionally in the lounge!
 

Twister_Ken

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Remember too that conservation is a damn fine idea, whereas Conservation is a career.

Conservationists need to 'prove' that everything is going to hell in a handcart so that their salaries, honorariums, expense-paid trips to conferences, etc. keep getting paid.

There's no pay-packet in saying everything is hunky dory in Studland.
 

JumbleDuck

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I would invite people to consider just how much less pleasant sailing would be in many places if it wasn't for the efforts of conservationists over the years. Hysterical opposition to conservation plays right into the extremists hands, because in any fight in public opinion between cute creatures and yacht owners, the cute creatures are going to win every single time.

And I'm afraid that the boating community does itself no favours at all in many places. When I started this lark the universally accepted rule was that you did not flush faeces out of sea toilets in harbours or busy anchorages. Nowadays every harbour or marina seems to have a fringe of brown stinking scum round the edge of it because lazy crews can't be bothered going to a public toilet.
 

MarlynSpyke

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It's interesting that when it comes to, say, metallurgy we accept expert advice here from, say, Vyv Cox, or on rigging, advice from John Morris on setting up our spreaders. However when the advice is less welcome and comes from experts who raise difficult questions it's OK to dispute expertise. Just saying, like.

I’ll give you three very relevant examples of conservationists “experts” getting it wrong in the context of Studland Bay.

1. A Daily Telegraph article of 16th July 2013 says “Neil Garrick-Maidment, director of the Seahorse Trust, said the destruction of habitat by all the pleasure boats has wiped out the colony.”
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/10183387/UK-Seahorses-in-danger-of-being-wipedout.html

Blatantly untrue, the eelgrass habitat is still there and has been for decades. Further, the Seahorse Trust itself later described 7 sightings of seahorses in 2013. What probably happened is the cold start to 2013 delayed the movement of the seahorses inshore, but that didn’t stop that conservationist blaming pleasure boats.

2. The authors of the report on eelgrass described in the YM article may have been experts on eelgrass, but clearly were not experts on aerial image analysis. Look at the detailed BORG article http://boatownersresponse.org.uk/critique_of_NECR111.pdf for full justification of this statement.

3. Even acknowledged “experts” on eelgrass, which is the seagrass Zostera marina, failed to distinguish between this northern European species and the Mediterranean seagrass Posidonia oceanica. The latter is of a different family and physical structure to our eelgrass, and has indeed been shown to be susceptible to anchor damage. The “experts” concluded that because the one is significantly susceptible to anchors then our eelgrass also must be, a conclusion not borne out by any scientific studies. Details of this and more at http://boatownersresponse.org.uk/Workshop_presentation7.pdf .

If anchoring really was causing significant damage to eelgrass, then we would support measures to minimise the damage. Sailors of course value the natural environment, that is a big part of the appeal of sailing and boating. What we will not tolerate is boaters’ interests being curtailed on the basis of a cock-and-bull scenario dreamed up by conservationists on the basis of false or non-existent evidence. BORG does not challenge things on a whim, we have our own expertise and knowledge which has developed further over the last few years as we carefully examine claims made by conservationists.
 

Seajet

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I would invite people to consider just how much less pleasant sailing would be in many places if it wasn't for the efforts of conservationists over the years. Hysterical opposition to conservation plays right into the extremists hands, because in any fight in public opinion between cute creatures and yacht owners, the cute creatures are going to win every single time.

And I'm afraid that the boating community does itself no favours at all in many places. When I started this lark the universally accepted rule was that you did not flush faeces out of sea toilets in harbours or busy anchorages. Nowadays every harbour or marina seems to have a fringe of brown stinking scum round the edge of it because lazy crews can't be bothered going to a public toilet.

Jumbleduck,

no sailor with a brain ( and a heart ) would argue against conservation in its' true sense; it's the new industry in career conservationists in unelected highly paid and media grabbing - see Countryfile, ' gin swilling wreckers of the environment ' - quango's which is the trouble.

It should be borne in mind that certain relevant career conservationists have done rather nicely on public donations, to fund their ' working ' on what is arguably the best beach in the UK, nice work if you can get it !

I have asked this person if he will be refunding the public as his publicity was misleading; the response seems to be a Mr Burns - like ' I'd sooner not ' ! :rolleyes:
 
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Searush

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I would invite people to consider just how much less pleasant sailing would be in many places if it wasn't for the efforts of conservationists over the years. Hysterical opposition to conservation plays right into the extremists hands, because in any fight in public opinion between cute creatures and yacht owners, the cute creatures are going to win every single time.

And I'm afraid that the boating community does itself no favours at all in many places. When I started this lark the universally accepted rule was that you did not flush faeces out of sea toilets in harbours or busy anchorages. Nowadays every harbour or marina seems to have a fringe of brown stinking scum round the edge of it because lazy crews can't be bothered going to a public toilet.

Have you had that scum analysed or are you just making wild unsubstantiated accusations? I have lived & sail around pristine mudflats most of my life on the River Dee & Menai Straits amongst other places. A brown, smelly scum is common & usually due to decaying animal & vegetable organisms that have lived a healthy life in the mud & died of old age or being predated by fish, sea birds, waders etc.

Mind you a small amount of human, animal, bird & fish excrement is vital to keeping many organisms alive, they have to get their nutrients from somewhere - it is part of the all important cycle of life. The cockles, winkles, mussels & oysters grown in the Straits are prized culinary delights.
 
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