Stepping yacht masts in our club yard

[chewi]

All sounds too complicated/dangerous to me. Why not go for the simple option of using the same crane to lift the masts and hulls, OK so you can only do half the number of boats, but then repeat the exercise in a fortnights time when the tides are again right. By spreading the workload and giving members the option of two possible dates for lift in/lift it might actually be better for many members.

That's the "let them eat cake" approach. Fine if that's what you choose, but there other ways.
If members want to they can go elsewhere and pay either for storage or mast dropping, but as a club try to keep their costs down where feasible.

Our access to the yard is restricted by tide. We already do two lifts of 30 boats on each of two spring tides at each end of the season. If we had to use yet another spring at either end of the season we'd lose a month and get half the yield out of an expensive crane, so we devise ways to make it work safely.

Our solution is to collectively lift the boats out under the control of a trained liftmaster, and do it so quickly we oblige the members to drop their masts and we provide a derrick to do so.

 

[ProDave]

You talk about walking the foot (of the mast) forward, so I assume you lift the masts off their base to walk the foot forward?

Do these boats not have some form of pivot? If so why not hinge the masts on their pivot and gently lower them with your lifting gear? We do the same, only not with a derek, but just with lot of manpower.

The larger few boats with keel stepped masts use the big mobile crane on crane out day. The rest we do a few days before on "masts down" day.

At crane in, most mast get lifted, again just with a lot of man power, at the end of crane in.

 

[chewi]

You talk about walking the foot (of the mast) forward, so I assume you lift the masts off their base to walk the foot forward?

Do these boats not have some form of pivot? If so why not hinge the masts on their pivot and gently lower them with your lifting gear? We do the same, only not with a derek, but just with lot of manpower.

The larger few boats with keel stepped masts use the big mobile crane on crane out day. The rest we do a few days before on "masts down" day.

At crane in, most mast get lifted, again just with a lot of man power, at the end of crane in.

Boats with tabernacles can do as you suggest,
Lots of our boats interface the mast and foot with a simple keyed slot, no pivot at all, and some have a pivot too weak to use in that way as without adequate lateral restraint the mast can be blown sideways out of control, so they use the derrick.

We each choose our own way.

 

[Quandary]

When I first got our Sigma 33 I noticed there was eyes on the casting at the foot of the mast and an in line hole in the lug of the mast step, it seemed a simple matter to put a rope over the beam of the parked marina travel hoist on a winter Sunday afternoon, and gradually drop the mast backwards. To our surprise when it was half way down the piece of rod we had put through the holes sheared and the foot of the mast skidded up the foredeck. It had never occurred to us that the holes only aligned when the mast was close to vertical. It was lucky that the pin sheared before the mast foot and step castings broke. It still puzzles me why Kemp had designed it that way but It was another lesson learned with a considerable amount of luck.
For those who live on the South coast with cranes available everywhere who suggest wintering elsewhere, we are a rural club in deepest Argyll, the crane for the lift takes most of the day to come up from Glasgow and the same to return so the option to split the task and repeat it a fortnight later would be very expensive by our standards. We are already vulnerable to stormy weather on the day. The winter space for a 10m. boat in the clubs yard costs into three figures plus as much again each end for lifting. But we own the yard, it is on the foreshore in the middle of the village with a cafe and pub immediately across the road and is a major social resource for us old duffers. That is why we want to keep our independence.

 

[JumbleDuck]

... we are a rural club in deepest Argyll, the crane for the lift takes most of the day to come up from Glasgow and the same to return so the option to split the task and repeat it a fortnight later would be very expensive by our standards.

Is there not a local mobile crane which could do the lighter stuff (masts and even wee boats) separately. Down here in the rural south west the two places which do lift outs hire a big visiting crane for boats, but things like masts are done by a couple of local contractors who have telehandlers/front loaders. Perhaps that's the "goodwill of a local builder", but it might not be a bad way to go.

Alternatively I suppose you could always nip round Ardlamont some dark night and nick this

Of course you might need a crane to lift it ...

 

[lw395]

Costs into 3 figures? In the real world it costs that to store a Laser.
If the costs of unstepping a mast safely are excessive by your standards, then maybe you should be looking at boats with less demanding masts?
It's not really very practical to comment on the details of the structure you gave. You can assess things far better on site than anyone on the interweb can. And what is the value of 'some random bloke in cyberspace' saying it will all be OK?

A lot of clubs have been doing this sort of thing for years, but one thing I'm noticing is that in the past there were lots of practical people running things, now the clubs are full of insurance salesmen, managers and telephone sanitisers.

I'd say your choices are:
Get the derrick professionally designed or at least tested.
Go elsewhere to unstep the masts (or as many as possible) in the days before crane day.
Look at what other lifting machinery might be cheaper than a proper crane.

In the latter category, a typical cherry picker has a SWL of over 200kg, how much does a mast weigh?
What haulage companies have decent 'hiab' type lorries? Big JCB type things? Manitou?

By the way, when I was in Scotland, I noticed a few boats stored with masts up in what I thought was an exposed place.
Closer inspection showed that the masts were guyed to eye bolts in the concrete!

 

[Rafiki]

That's the "let them eat cake" approach. Fine if that's what you choose, but there other ways.
If members want to they can go elsewhere and pay either for storage or mast dropping, but as a club try to keep their costs down where feasible.

Our access to the yard is restricted by tide. We already do two lifts of 30 boats on each of two spring tides at each end of the season. If we had to use yet another spring at either end of the season we'd lose a month and get half the yield out of an expensive crane, so we devise ways to make it work safely.

Our solution is to collectively lift the boats out under the control of a trained liftmaster, and do it so quickly we oblige the members to drop their masts and we provide a derrick to do so.

Far from it being the "let them eat cake " approach it is the approach adopted by a club I'm a member of which lifts 60 boats over a day and a half , and lifts and stores masts, all by hiring two mobile cranes and one lo-loader, with all labour provided by club members, with no serious injuries or serious damage.. EVER

 

[lw395]

..... with no serious injuries or serious damage.. EVER

no serious injuries or serious damage.. YET.
We need to work to keep it that way.

 

[chewi]

Far from it being the "let them eat cake " approach it is the approach adopted by a club I'm a member of which lifts 60 boats over a day and a half , and lifts and stores masts, all by hiring two mobile cranes and one lo-loader, with all labour provided by club members, with no serious injuries or serious damage.. EVER

yes, that was a tad harsh. no offence meant.
In reality, as lw395 said, only the OP and his peers can execute a specific solution that works safely in his circumstances, but it can be done, and he has some ideas from us all, so he can take encouragement from that.
Then they can celebrate with some cake.

 

[wooslehunter]

Didn't get a chance to read the whole thread but take a look here: https://www.emsworthslippersc.org.uk/sailing/cruisers

There's a photo of our lift. We do around 35 boats over a weekend & many have their masts lifted with our derrek. You can just about see it set up to the left of the lift picture. It's built from scaffold poles cut & welded. The boom is a single pole but has triple wire & spreaders to increase the strength. The frame also has thick wire running through the poles to give additional strength in tension. It's removed & stored after lift & we only have a few permanent bolts set into the dock to hold the base.

We have a yacht winch on the frame & can control the lift and the boom. The ropes for this run though jammers so can't slip back.

After a few lifts, we've got quite slick & can put a mast up in a few minutes. Going up, the key is preparation. Rigging needs to be ready to go with everything tied securely to the mast except the standing rigging. This gets tied with a single rope or sail tie. The mast needs to be orientated correctly prior to lift. On the way down, the key is to make sure all rigging screws and any mastfoot nuts are ready to go.

 

[Impaler]

Without wishing to be a bore...be careful that does not collapse. LOLER (google it) regulations probably don't apply here but it's worth checking. If there's an accident and god forbid someone is hurt then you can bet the HSE, police and lawyers will be all over you like a rash.. Rented gear should all be certified but home made will not be. I've worked in oil and gas for a long time and the lifting regs are pretty stringent. As I say it may not apply for private clubs etc. but maybe worth a professional opinion.

 

[Billjratt]

Of course home made equipment can be certified.
It has to be done on a regular basis to meet insurance requirements.

 

[howard easton]

would you or indeed any club member feel happy if someone was killed or injured when you were lifting masts? Of course you wouldnt so to my mind its hand in pocket time. Get a proper set up and get someone capable of operating it. We do a deal with a local crane company who comes along and lifts out maybe 30 masts in a morning at a cost of £20 each.

 

[Tranona]

would you or indeed any club member feel happy if someone was killed or injured when you were lifting masts? Of course you wouldnt so to my mind its hand in pocket time. Get a proper set up and get someone capable of operating it. We do a deal with a local crane company who comes along and lifts out maybe 30 masts in a morning at a cost of £20 each.

If you read the thread you will discover that the specific circumstances of the location of the club make that approach impractical.

Precisely why the OP has raised the issue as the obvious solutions used by others are not suitable.

 

[JumbleDuck]

If you read the thread you will discover that the specific circumstances of the location of the club make that approach impractical.

Precisely why the OP has raised the issue as the obvious solutions used by others are not suitable.

The OP did say they use a local crane informally ... maybe just formalise that a bit?

 

[Quandary]

As the OP, my hope was that somewhere there was a derrick with a bit more range than ours or a innovative solution that we might adopt. I had specifically requested that we did not receive advice on risk, we are content that we are competent to deal with that ourselves and the forecasts of doomsayers only serve to leave us vulnerable if they are reported. Life does involve risk. The occasional use of a builders crane which can be tied up elsewhere for weeks in real work is not ideal and this is exacerbated by problems of access and tide.
But, Hey Ho, you all gave the advice you thought appropriate and I thank you for that.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Any local farmers with a front loader / telehandler who might play? Or maybe there are more of them around in more arable areas.