Startup Nav Package

[ylop]

What I need to do is replace GPS for the GMDSS input.

You can do that for well under £100 (probably under £50 without too much effort). Everything else you want is nice to have. It suddenly puts in perspective the possibility of spending £1-2K when you only need to spend 50!

Log:
- We had one on our last boat it was constantly inaccurate, weed etc.
- The trailing log is just so I have something, incase.
- If push came to shove, its better to have something that works than something you cannot trust.

I find it provides a useful indicator or how much tide I am fighting (or being carried along by) to compare STW and SOG. Its an early warning that you've messed up your tide calculation, and helps differentiate how well the boat is sailing from how fast you will arrive. A better sailor might not feel these are needed.

AIS:
- What's the point of turning it on when it's not going to be used?
- The thought is to WiFi info to tablets phones etc in fine weather,
- This is for fog and shipping lanes not for local sailing,

I'm not sure what the worry is here - you can simply turn the power off to all of them. I'm not sure how easy it is to silence transmission and receive only if that is what you meant and I can't see why if you can transmit you would not want to but still listen. I'd question if you need a £600 transmitter or a <£200 received would do what you want.

Screens Positions,
- There is no good space to place them in the cockpit,
- Where we could put them is where we sit,
- We already have phones and tablets we can use in the cockpit,

What do they not do that you want to be able to do? London Charplotters does some very cheap waterproof, daylight viewable tablets which would be ideal for having both down below and on deck. They seem to work ok when wet or with wet hands.

When the weather is such we are not able to use phones in cockpit, because they are already so wet the touch screen is useless.
Any screens in the cockpit would be wet enough to be difficult to read.
The ability to properly digest information becomes somewhat reduced.

To balance the view take at look at Orca

Several solutions in different capability/price brackets.

You can plan with the Orca software for free. its quite nice (the sail planning bit seems to only be free for a few days). BUT it didn't seem to understand tides properly when I tried. If you want to spend £1000+ it is probably a great tablet solution etc - but I don't think you can install navionics or antares charts etc if you decide to switch. its intended to be easy to plug into an N2K network. You probably don't have and N2K instruments so everything needs an adaptor etc.

I don't want the depth sounder taking up expensive pixels on the chart plotter.

I agree with that but when I was down below in the pouring rain last week listening to 25kts blowing through the rigging it was quite nice to temporarily add that data to my display in cabin so I could check the depth as an extra reassurance we weren't dragging.

For longer passages in open water, I don't really get much gain from a chart plotter, but it earns its keep in pilotage.
...
An android tablet which puts you on the map even without 12V.

I'd agree with all of that but its just worth making sure that the tablet alerts you clearly/loudly if its not charging - I've had a couple of moments when the tablet suddenly died about 10 minutes from the end of the day - i.e. just as I was getting into the tricky bit.

And can we have the instruments mounted where the crew doesn't block the helms view of them?
But also where the crew can see them too...

I'm not fussed about "the crew" in general being able to see them - but I often sail with less experienced people and its very helpful for ME to be able to see them when they are on the helm so e.g. they can worry about steering/sailing whilst I look at the CPA, or so I can see if we have lost any speed or I can think about depth whilst they go around moored boats etc.

A few other things that would be nice to have:
1. the engine RPM (its positioned at the perfect height for a rabbit to read!)
2. engine temp (we don't have at all but I'd like to see the trend)
3. battery voltage in the cockpit - I check at start and end of each day but sometimes I'm going to have to start the engine just to charge the batteries I might as well plan that into when I'm not sailing anywhere quickly. And with all your new toys they won't last as long as before.
4. fuel tank level - not actually an issue (I don't use much - so it if was ok at start of day it will be ok now) but again its been mounted stupidly and to check it when planning I need to go outside and turn the engine on!

 

[B27]

I agree about tablets' batteries dying at awkward moments!
Also engine temp is on my ToDo list.

Wind speed is mostly useful down wind, upwind or on a reach you can judge how windy it is, building wind from astern can catch you out.


Speed through the water from the log is useful for helping to judge the effects of sailing higher or lower, particularly with a kite up.
A log with two decimal places is better, you can see small changes happening sooner when you make changes.

I have battery voltage in the cockpit, but it's not very useful on its own, because the solar panel and the fridge have an influence, as does the alternator if the motor is running.

I agree about being the person not on the helm who wants to see the instruments, boats with everything in front of a wheel are really annoying IMHO.

An indoor depth sounder repeater would be nice, better still to be able read depth and maybe a few other things from my bunk.

 

[onesea]

You can do that for well under £100 (probably under £50 without too much effort). Everything else you want is nice to have. It suddenly puts in perspective the possibility of spending £1-2K when you only need to spend 50!

I find it provides a useful indicator or how much tide I am fighting (or being carried along by) to compare STW and SOG. Its an early warning that you've messed up your tide calculation, and helps differentiate how well the boat is sailing from how fast you will arrive. A better sailor might not feel these are needed.

I'm not sure what the worry is here - you can simply turn the power off to all of them. I'm not sure how easy it is to silence transmission and receive only if that is what you meant and I can't see why if you can transmit you would not want to but still listen. I'd question if you need a £600 transmitter or a <£200 received would do what you want.

What do they not do that you want to be able to do? London Charplotters does some very cheap waterproof, daylight viewable tablets which would be ideal for having both down below and on deck. They seem to work ok when wet or with wet hands.



You can plan with the Orca software for free. its quite nice (the sail planning bit seems to only be free for a few days). BUT it didn't seem to understand tides properly when I tried. If you want to spend £1000+ it is probably a great tablet solution etc - but I don't think you can install navionics or antares charts etc if you decide to switch. its intended to be easy to plug into an N2K network. You probably don't have and N2K instruments so everything needs an adaptor etc.


I agree with that but when I was down below in the pouring rain last week listening to 25kts blowing through the rigging it was quite nice to temporarily add that data to my display in cabin so I could check the depth as an extra reassurance we weren't dragging.

I'd agree with all of that but its just worth making sure that the tablet alerts you clearly/loudly if its not charging - I've had a couple of moments when the tablet suddenly died about 10 minutes from the end of the day - i.e. just as I was getting into the tricky bit.

I'm not fussed about "the crew" in general being able to see them - but I often sail with less experienced people and its very helpful for ME to be able to see them when they are on the helm so e.g. they can worry about steering/sailing whilst I look at the CPA, or so I can see if we have lost any speed or I can think about depth whilst they go around moored boats etc.

A few other things that would be nice to have:
1. the engine RPM (its positioned at the perfect height for a rabbit to read!)
2. engine temp (we don't have at all but I'd like to see the trend)
3. battery voltage in the cockpit - I check at start and end of each day but sometimes I'm going to have to start the engine just to charge the batteries I might as well plan that into when I'm not sailing anywhere quickly. And with all your new toys they won't last as long as before.
4. fuel tank level - not actually an issue (I don't use much - so it if was ok at start of day it will be ok now) but again its been mounted stupidly and to check it when planning I need to go outside and turn the engine on!

@ylop
Must admit with regard GPS, I had not found GPS with screen and basics cog sog distance to waypoint for £50 nearer £200.

As you say the rest is nice to have, however most years we seem to find ourselves in reduced visibility at some point then AIS would be a good to have.
However this for £500
Onwa KP38A 5" Chart Plotter Class B+ AIS transceiver 24 month warranty | eBay

Makes you think is that’s worth whilst, however with that you might as well look to wifi the data to your phones/ tablets as that’s where it will be more useful in most conditions.

A log I can see as a nice to have however a long keel boat with internal ballast makes positioning rather challenging. The boat has sailed for 40+ years without a water log I am sure I will manage. When your only doing 5-6 knots max you get a good idea of the current from GPS the feel of the boat and lobster pots :/

As for tablets we have them and use presently, it’s just when we have been out with a bit of weather you have to be methodical to keep hands dry or you end with screens doing strange things (the same happens to my phone in the rain on my motorbike).

Our last boat had depth, log and wind, the only thing we miss is autopilot steer to wind function. We had no issues with wet screens but she had a bit more freeboard and the cockpit was a bit drier.

I am pondering the Basic solution suggested in PBO
DIY chartplotter for £200: how to build one at home - Practical Boat Owner
But your relying on a tablet again and you have to be constantly aware of keeping them charged and wet fingers. Hence the consideration for a screen and plotter below.

We don’t have RPM guage we only have basic buzzer and lights for engine charging.

All the comments and advice is being read and considered.

 

[ylop]

Must admit with regard GPS, I had not found GPS with screen and basics cog sog distance to waypoint for £50 nearer £200.

Ok, but that wasn’t on your original “need” list you just need a gps feed to the DSC radio. That can be done with a little “gps mouse” the hardest part there is either finding a 12v one or adding a 12-5v converter.

Your radio may have ability to show cog and sog, probably in tiny text. Obviously distance to waypoint will only work if you have a route programmed into that device (or get sophisticated with the route being passed around a network). The user experience of programming waypoints on anything without a tough screen is so bad that you either won’t bother very often or will use your phone/tablet anyway.

All touch screens are affected to some extent by rain/spray directly on the screen but having used a number of proper plotters over the years as well as tablets/phones I am certain that not all are equal! The reconditioned galaxy tab active screens london chart plotters use seem to cope better than any normal phone, and better than the proper plotters 10+ yrs ago when touch screens first emerged on them. Working a fiddly knob/joystick with cold hands isn’t the best user experience either. I notice the Orca app have used the vol buttons on the side for the zoom in /out so you have an alternative to multi touch (which is where wet screens struggle most). If you do go down the traditional buttons route - make sure you play with it before you buy as some manufacturers seem to have never actually sailed a boat and so the features you want quickly can be hidden inside multiple menus (and features you will never use are cluttering up the menus).

 

[onesea]

@ylop you summarise nicely why I reached to forum for advice on kit. I may well look to the boat show for advice. However there I fear it will be big dealers looking to install for £££
I am not certain how they would feel about you wanting to wet there equipment before you try.

A route being passed around network would be good then it comes down to £££

As the PBO article says the are low cost options out there it’s just getting right balance. Maybe I should consider a touch screen below as you say life through menus is challenging.

I should also add the chart table is in easy view of the cockpit.

 

[B27]

I'm looking for an ios app to make an ipad emulate an old-skool HH GPS.
A list of waypoints stored.
Select one, GOTO and it display COG SOG DTW BTW