Starter Yachts

Searush said:
I think you have just responded to a post of mine on another thread (the exclusivity one) Please take more care with your nav when in your new boat - or stay on your own side of the Irish Sea please. :rolleyes:

You may be new to sailing, but you are not new to the sea & boats are you? HMCG & RNLI are kept very busy with people on my side of the Irish Sea who buy a sports cruiser & tow it to the sea with no understanding of the sea whatsoever. They are often referrred to as the "Birmingham Navy". I'm sure you are not that naive, but that's an expensive boat to make any mistakes with. After 35 years sailing I STILL make mistakes. I wish you luck.
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Searush are you always this rude. Now are you annoyed that I can afford a starter boat that in your words is 'expensive', im trying to work you out.

I intend to do a few courses before I sail and if you are still making mistakes after 35 years Jesus christ take up bowling.........

I must say that its easy to post anything you want on a forum like this, I can assure you it would be another matter completely to say things face to face, Im sure you would agree.

Kindest Regards

rab
 
There are a fair few "starter Yachts" out there. My boat is a 28 year old Seawolf 26 designed by David Feltham. It's very well laid out, with an engine thats nearly 10 years old but only 60 hours when we bought it. It's very well mannered and beautifully balanced but takes no great effort to keep above 5 knots when you've got a nice F4.

We paid £6000 for her in the summer and the list of problems that we have fixed could be written on your finger tip. We've got a few cosmetic modifications and remove the furling gear for a fixed foil and new main but that is it.

The small good boats are still out there, you just have to look.

EDIT: just realised i haven't really answered your question, however as said, J&M W yachts are building some nice small cheap yachts to get people out on the water

http://www.s-yachts.com/S-Yachts/Home.html
 
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Searush said:
David J

My question remains, what will happen when the existing suppply of (now 20-40 year old) "starter" boats diminishes due to natural wastage? Sailing may well start to become exclusive & unobtainable then.
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Beneteau produce sailing boats as small as 21ft. Other companies do so too. The Poles produce a 24 footer. What's the problem?

Incidentally, a mobo of the same length will have far more inside room, so a 17ft mobo is equivalent to a 20 odd foot sailing boat.
 
padipaddy said:
Searush are you always this rude. Now are you annoyed that I can afford a starter boat that in your words is 'expensive', im trying to work you out.

I intend to do a few courses before I sail and if you are still making mistakes after 35 years Jesus christ take up bowling.........

I must say that its easy to post anything you want on a forum like this, I can assure you it would be another matter completely to say things face to face, Im sure you would agree.

Kindest Regards

rab
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Sorry to upset you, it was intended as a frivolous tease, enjoy your boat. I would have happily said that face to face - and you would have seen the twinkle in my eye. I don't post anything that I wouldn't say face to face.

I'll be well impressed if anyone on here can honestly say they don't make mistakes, however long they have sailed. Many will claim to be perfect - but truth is another matter. Read some of the famous Cruising folks - thousands of miles & still never perfect. I will be learning until I die, that's what makes life fun for me.

Oh, & I am not annoyed, I trust you will shout "ahoy" if you spot Sea Rush around. I shall keep an eye open for "PadiPaddy" - or are you hiding your boat name? :rolleyes: :D

Send me a PM when you know it all :D (it's another tease BTW)
 
Thank you for your response SEARUSH

It is difficult to come onto a new forum and meet people trying to work out who is who and what people mean. I accept totally that what you said was tongue in cheek and it has made me smile.

I will of course shout ahoy and indeed promise you an ulster fry!!!

My boats name is CARIAD


Regards

rab
 
if you are still making mistakes after 35 years Jesus christ take up bowling.........




Well... I have been sailing since I was 10... and I am now errrr well getting up to that 35 plus ten figure.....

So, do you think starting with 5 pin is best... or just going the whole hog and taking up 10 pin?

smileyicon
 
photodog said:
if you are still making mistakes after 35 years Jesus christ take up bowling.........




Well... I have been sailing since I was 10... and I am now errrr well getting up to that 35 plus ten figure.....

So, do you think starting with 5 pin is best... or just going the whole hog and taking up 10 pin?

smileyicon
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HA HA HA

Like sailing I dont know anything about bowling
:)

Rab
 
dylanwinter said:
my first yacht was an eboat - 22 foot - drop keel. It cost me £4,000 25 years ago - and it took a lot of saving

the super slug - mirror offshore 19 foot - cost me £2,000 - she is 40 years old and I have spent as little as possible on her despite being part way through a Uk circumnavigation

I see no reason why she should not last another 40 years or even 40 beyond that

Its all very well buying a bigger boat second hand - but everything goes up exponentially.
I can guarantee that a winch for a 30 footer costs a lot more than a winch for a Mirror Offshore - oh hang on - my boat doesn't have any winches, or fridges, or cookers, my ropes are shorter, my insurance is lower, my sails are cheaper

come on over to smaller boats - its the land of milk and honey

Dylan
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it does seem small boats have more fun - also perhaps the lower capital cost reduces the stress levels ...... perfectly possible to get a decent seawothy 4 berth cruiser for 2k - nutters even sail them across the atlantic -

random thought -does the mini transat still take place ?
 
padipaddy said:
Thank you for your response SEARUSH

It is difficult to come onto a new forum and meet people trying to work out who is who and what people mean. I accept totally that what you said was tongue in cheek and it has made me smile.

I will of course shout ahoy and indeed promise you an ulster fry!!!

My boats name is CARIAD


Regards

rab
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A WELSH name! She (& of course all who sail in her) will be warmly welcomed on the "wrong" side of the Irish Sea where I sail. But do give me plenty of "wobble" room just in case I make a mistake. :D

Incidentally, when you make Caernarfon, call in at the Royal Welsh, it's in the old town walls, at Porth yr Aur, or the Golden Gate, facing the sunset. Fabulous views from an 800 year old clubhouse. I'll buy you a pint if I'm around. Steve K
 
Was there not a thread on here recently about the 'Leisure 18'? I recall somebody had bought the moulds and was going to put them into production... off to search the forum...
 
re what we buy

I don't disagree with what you have all said but maybe we follow a different path into sailing now because of the economics of this country.

I needed to buy a house and feed the kids first

I was a dinghy racer and sailor, I learn't my DIY and sailing skills on mirrors, enterprises, a phantom, ospreys, and finally a wooden wayfarer.

We used to go camping and take the boat.


When I had saved enough I bought a 35' old boat (1972).

Sailing to me is a family activity. I wanted a boat that would keep them safe but also that we could go places in without scaring them. That said I wasn't looking for a boat quite so big but what surprised my was that if i rolled my sleeves up I could afford one.

if you keep it on a swinging mooring size is not really an issue.

I am an engineer and do most work myself and it does have a simple masthead rig but a bigger boat is not that much more expensive to keep if you are smart about it and buy carefully.

That said I have paper charts, no shower, no hot water system etc and I buy lots of second hand gear but otherwise I know people who spend more supporting smoking as a hobby.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that to an extent its not the size of the boat that is the issue but the level of complexity. Mine is very simple and i don't need a chart plotter to go for a sail.

Alongside me are lots of other similarly sized old boats - in the yard are lots of rotton neglected ones as well.

Re the debate over the pool of second hand boats, there are lots of second hand boats out there and and always will be, they are just getting a bit bigger. They will price themselves accordingly based on supply and demand and we will all get on with life.

Enough people will care for their older boats to feed that pool as they want to get money back when the sell on.

There will always be neglected boats that will get scrapped as well.

if you want a marina berth it is a disproportionate cost compared to the general upkeep of your boat and you are playing a different game from me anyway.

There are a choice of 26 footers for sale out there but none of them really appealed to me. I can't get through the hatch on some of them. I would rather have an older bigger boat because thats what works for me.

I think learning to handle a dinghy well and sailing on other peoples yachts is a great grounding before buying your own and I think that is the route most of us are following now.

Thats why I think the 26' starter yacht stepping stone is less popular than it once was.

Bit of a ramble but i guess I'm trying to say we all follow a different path to getting where we are at in yachting. I think more of us are doing it differently now thats all!
 
dylanwinter said:
my first yacht was an eboat - 22 foot - drop keel. It cost me £4,000 25 years ago - and it took a lot of saving

the super slug - mirror offshore 19 foot - cost me £2,000 - she is 40 years old and I have spent as little as possible on her despite being part way through a Uk circumnavigation

I see no reason why she should not last another 40 years or even 40 beyond that

Its all very well buying a bigger boat second hand - but everything goes up exponentially.
I can guarantee that a winch for a 30 footer costs a lot more than a winch for a Mirror Offshore - oh hang on - my boat doesn't have any winches, or fridges, or cookers, my ropes are shorter, my insurance is lower, my sails are cheaper

come on over to smaller boats - its the land of milk and honey

Dylan
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A man after my own heart, but can't get out as I would wish - swmbo needs my or a relative's presence.
My Caprice IV ('78 SIBS show model) in v. good order well under a grand on Ebay- all I could wish for & 3rd Party insurance.
 
In Spain I have seen one boat that would make a good starter boat. It is the Fortuna 9 a 9 metre sailboat that has attained mythical status in Spanish marine circles and the truth is they're not bad. These days you could probably get one for between €20,000-€30,000 which granted is not that cheap and it would probably be about 20 years old. They were very popular with about 800 built.
Here is a link with some pictures http://www.cosasdebarcos.com/galeria-fotos-barco-fortuna-9-79634040082855705656696757524549.html

Has any one seen one in the UK?

Brgds
SB03
 
Ubergeekian said:
The plywood boats of the 60s and 70s seem to have disappeared almost entirely. I can't remember when I last saw a Robert Tucker design - Silhouette, Ballerina, whatever - afloat. That's probably a combination of age, poor maintenance and the ready availability of similar GRP boats cheap. I
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There was a Silhouette owners club get together at Rutland Water last year and roughly speaking about 20 Silhouettes turned up, and about a third of them were wooden ones, some nicely restored, others juts about holding their own. A restored wooden one resides in the boat park close to my Dehler22, so they are still about I'm pleased to say.


My only comment is that buying the boat is not really the issue. Its the ongoing costs that make or break it as a going concern for the less well off. The bigger the boat, the higher these costs go in all departments. I could not realistically afford to keep anything above about 28ft unless I found a very cheap mooring somewhere.

Tim
 
Searush said:
DMMBruce; RCD defines the "capabilities" of new boat designs to sail in lakes, estuaries, offshore etc. It tends to penalise small boats - only certifying them fit for use in sheltered waters. However it pays no attention to the skills of the sailor & would have kept Shane Acton in Oxford (if that's the correct town?) It is the sort of nonsense that bureaucrats like to foist on unknowlegable or fearful people as "safety rules"
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CAMBRIDGE!!!!!!!
 
My first yacht was a GRP Hurley of uncertain vintage. It cost £400, and I went halves with a friend (way back in 2003). It then cost over half the purchase price to moor it somewhere, but that's life. The mast broke (serious corrosion), and I made a new one out of a bigger one another club member was about to throw away.
 
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