Starter boat for family cruising

[Sybarite]

Hi folks
I've been reading this forum lots but haven't posted any queries for a while.
I am getting (a little) closer to my dream of getting a sailing boat to take my 2 boys cruising on the Clyde Coast.
Basically I have booked some training and have persuaded SWMBO to let me part with some cash for a boat. Her biggest objection was the ongoing costs of berthing, but I am now considering a swing mooring rather than a marina berth, which seems to halve the yearly outlay.
I have been perusing the internet (a lot!) looking at boats and I have to say it is pretty good fun but having seen a few that seem to fit my criteria I wondered if anyone with experience or pearls of wisdom could help me with any comments that might help me choose between their relative merits.
I could wait until next year but I was wondering if better deals can be had during the Winter when (I would expect) there is less interest in boats?
Anyways I want to cruise the West Coast of Scotland in all that that entails in terms of less than idyllic weather, with my 2 sons aged 5 and 12. I want to be able to overnight in reasonable comfort and might occasionally want to stay away longer, anything up to a week. I may occasionally be joined by my wife and 9 yr old daughter in addition so accomodation needs to stretch occasionally to 5. I'm not interested in racing but would like to go fast enough to make reasonable passages during daylight hours.
The boats that have caught my eye are:

Ohlson 8.8
Stag 28
Colvic Salty Dog 27
Dufour 27
Verl 790

Am I on track or do I need to start again?!

Any tips greatly appreciated

Whatever boat you are considering, charter before you buy. Actually being on a boat changed my criteria ie there is a world of difference in comfort between a 26 footer and a 30 footer for a marginal difference in costs.

If Swmbo is cramped and uncomfortable, you are going to have a rebel rather than a partner.

 

[webcraft]

If Swmbo is cramped and uncomfortable, you are going to have a rebel rather than a partner.

We chartered the Cobra and SWMBO loved it.

The problem is, no-one is chartering anything that small or that 'affordable' these days. If you start by chartering something larger that you couldn't afford to buy then disappointment may lie ahead when purchasing reality sets in.


- W

 

[onesea]

We chartered the Cobra and SWMBO loved it.

The problem is, no-one is chartering anything that small or that 'affordable' these days. If you start by chartering something larger that you couldn't afford to buy then disappointment may lie ahead when purchasing reality sets in.

- W

+1
Certainly my X was used to 30-40 boats anything smaller her mother would not contemplate.

Our first boat was 19' long my X loved it, she felt she was part of the crew and could handle her. When we moved to the 24' she appreciated the space but was always cautious over the extra size... She would not of wanted bigger.

Some people prefare smaller boats that goes for males and females..

SWMBO (the new one) presently is acclimatizing after a big step up to 35' from 24' again she appreciates the space and the speed but is VERY cautious of the power and size of equipment. She is adapting but will not take the bigger boat out without me, she recons ever ...

You do not know till you tried..

 

[claymore]

There was a Sadler 25 for charter from Dunstaffnage. It would have sailed well if Jimi was not helming and had a very comprehensive toolkit......which got used on another boat.

Sybarite nails this one - charter first, the boats on your list are a middlin bunch- especially the salty dog.
Sigma 33s are reasonable nowadays and make good cruising boats.

 

[PeteCooper]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the classic that is the Ecume De Mer

 

[aquaplane]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the classic that is the Ecume De Mer

I understand that there was one for sale @ Kip, do you know if it has been sold yet Pete?

 

[jimi]

There was a Sadler 25 for charter from Dunstaffnage. It would have sailed well if Jimi was not helming and had a very comprehensive toolkit......which got used on another boat.

Sybarite nails this one - charter first, the boats on your list are a middlin bunch- especially the salty dog.
Sigma 33s are reasonable nowadays and make good cruising boats.

It was a Sadler 29 and I loved it. I'd have thought it would be ideal for what the OP is looking for.

 

[jwilson]

We chartered the Cobra and SWMBO loved it.

The problem is, no-one is chartering anything that small or that 'affordable' these days. If you start by chartering something larger that you couldn't afford to buy then disappointment may lie ahead when purchasing reality sets in.


- W

Almost impossible now to legally charter an older smaller boat: it costs too much to get them coded.

The problem with suggesting a "starter boat" given the OPs criteria, is that individuals ideas of what is an acceptable level of space and comfort vary so much. Also, expectations of comfort aboard have risen dramatically since I started sailing.

Compared to some of the cramped, leaky, sitting headroom only, cook on a one burner primus and bucket for a loo sort of boats I'd sailed previously, a Contessa 32 with six aboard in the late 1970s was quite comfortable - I mean it had an actual real gimballed cooker, a sink with a water pump and a marine WC. Didn't leak much either.

Those who come to sailing from spartan-type pup-tent camping where you cook on your knees on a little gas burner and sleep on a thin mat on a damp groundsheet, will find most 26-30 footers quite civilised.

I do however find that many new to sailing these days start by doing courses on a Bavaria 36 or similar, and expect every boat to have wheel steering, full electronics, hot water and nice thick bunk cushions.

 

[claymore]

It was a Sadler 29 and I loved it. I'd have thought it would be ideal for what the OP is looking for.

Jings, sorry Jim, did I just reduce you by anither 4 ft? Sincere Apologies - us wee fellers mus stick yaegither.... The big lang fekkers.

 

[West Coast]

What part of Glasgow do you live? I am in the southside, and am a member of Troon Cruising Club, great club! It is based in Troon harbour, but has club moorings, and many of the boats in the club are the size you are looking at. Very friendly club, with loads of advice and willing help. PM me if you would like any further info?

 

[Jcorstorphine]

I thought this thread had fizzled out, but it looks like it has been revived.

Anyway I have still been looking and narrowing down my options and now my "favourite" boats are:

Verl 900 as above
Dufour 27
Halcyon 27
Shipman 28
Centaur
Viksund 27 motor sailer

These are all within range both geographically and budget wise.

The Halcyon sounds particularly tough and seaworthy.

The Viksund may seem a strange choice but I quite like the accomodation and twin helm position option and one just happened to be for sale locally. It has a small rig however and may not sail all that well.

Any guidance gratefully accepted!

Robert

Verl 900 (no experience)

Dufour 27 (nice layout)

Halcyon 27 (Sails on its ear so may put the wind up your wife)

Shipman 28 (nice one down at Irvine)

Centaur (go for a later one with square ports as will have some of the early niggles sorted. also go for one with a new engine, dont go for one with a Volvo MD2B/C/D or anything green.)

Viksund 27 motor sailer (Its a motor boat with a sail!!! This is not a sailing boat and will not go to windward, but has had the original Volvo replaced by a Yanmar)

If it were me, I would look at the Centaur but there are not many on the Clyde for sale at the mo.

Here is one down at Kippford

http://westerly.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=261946

You might also like to widen your horizons and look down south where there are 26 Centaurs for sale, cost of bringing one up from North wales was about £1000 but you may find the right boat at the right price even when you take into account transport.

When i sold my Westerly Pentland, the guy who bought it came from the Isle of Wight to see it and shipped it down for about £600 in 1998.

Have a look here

http://westerly.apolloduck.co.uk/boats.phtml?id=228

 

[interloper]

I've attempted several times to write a specifications list for a next sailboat. The list usually starts something like this:

1. Fixed keel
2. Bimini top
3. Outboard motor
4. Draft not greater than 4'
5. Good in light air

If I lived along the English Channel, I might specify twin keels. If I were a competent mechanic, I might actually want an inboard diesel.

 

[Bazza C]

I thought this thread had fizzled out, but it looks like it has been revived.

Bazza it's interesting that you posted about the Verl 900 because I am now looking at one (before it was a 790 but I have ruled that out on account of interior too cramped). There is a 900 for sale at Tarbert via Boatshed, asking price £12000 and my budget is ideally 10K but might be possible to negotiate price down?

Anyway I have still been looking and narrowing down my options and now my "favourite" boats are:

Verl 900 as above
Dufour 27
Halcyon 27
Shipman 28
Centaur
Viksund 27 motor sailer

These are all within range both geographically and budget wise.

The Halcyon sounds particularly tough and seaworthy.

The Viksund may seem a strange choice but I quite like the accomodation and twin helm position option and one just happened to be for sale locally. It has a small rig however and may not sail all that well.

Any guidance gratefully accepted!

Robert

Hi Robert,

The Tarbet Boatshed Verl 900 appears in fair condition for the year but the engine is original so maybe that's a very good bargaining point.
Our 'Verlesque' was in similar overall condition (albeit with a younger 1996 engine, but without cabin heating) when we bought it in 2011 but it has tidied up very well (after a lot of work) as can be seen on our website:
http://verl900.wordpress.com/

It has proved to be very roomy and practical and has far exceeded our expectations when sailing.
We're absolutely delighted with it!

During the re-fit we were also impressed about how soldly it was built, which other owners also report.
Nick Vass, the well-known surveyor reports on another web site that the only real negative he found (which you should obviously check for) is included in this quote:

"They have nicely fitted out interiors with lots of teak below and a good sized galley. Deck gear is well thought out and they are good cruising yachts. Freeboard is high so accommodation is generous.
I have surveyed a couple of Verle 900s that I have found to have distortion on the coachroof around the mast step due to mast compression. "

I would expect that the selling price of the Tarbet Boatshed one is very negotiable mainly on account of the engine (although it may still be serviceable) if nothing else and well within your budget figure.

At this age and price point, obviously you should allow a grand or two for updating (depending how fussy you are), plus probably another £4-£5k if the engine is clapped, for most boats, unless you are really really lucky to find one where someone has already done the work - in which case it will probably be over your budget!

It's a pity you don't live near sunny Torbay, otherwise we would be happy to take you out for a spin in 'Verlesque'.

Hope this helps!

Bazza.

 

[robertt]

Bazza, thanks very much for your advice. I intend taking a look at the Verl 900 at Tarbert. I would need to get it for under 10K for it to be viable though. And I don'y have another 4 to 5K to spend on re-engining so the one it has would have to be running well!

I looked at your website. Your boat looks gorgeous. It is obvious you have spared no expense and put a lot of work into bringing her up to that standard. I wish you many pleasurable years reaping the benefits.

Pity I'm just a bit too far away or I would have loved to take up your offer!

Robert

 

[jimi]

One of my main considerations when selecting a boat with a young family was :
1) No mainsheet traceller in cockpit
2) Boom high enough to clear all little heads even when they're standing on cockpit seats

 

[robertt]

Interesting points Jimi

I hadn't thought about these things specifically. I did feel that a mainsheet traveller in the middle of the cockpit may be a bit awkward and would prob prefer if it were right at the front or back of the cockpit. I wasn't sure whether I could be that fussy as if I otherwise liked the boat I thought I wd just have to put up with that. Having no experience I don't know how much hassle it would equate to although kids wd find it more difficult to step over.

I'll try to discourage the little monsters from standing on the cockpit seats to help avoid the swinging boom!

 

[onesea]

One of my main considerations when selecting a boat with a young family was :
1) No mainsheet traceller in cockpit
2) Boom high enough to clear all little heads even when they're standing on cockpit seats

Agree but..
1) Here I compromised it is in the middle of the cockpit BUT, when little hands onboard it stay in the middle (no tweeking).
I prefer it in the middle of the cockpit than forward of the cockpit by entrance to cabin.