Spinnaker Pole downhaul

[claymore]

Just running through the systems for Claymore's new spinnaker. Am I right in thinking that on a 30 ft cruising boat I'd be OK running the pole downhaul dinghy style, from the foot of the mast to the outboard end of the pole? Selden seem to think that £380 quidworth of pulleys and turning blocks from somewhere behind the anchor winch is the only way - I don't really want to do this as I want to keep the foredeck free of clutter

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[Aja]

Claymore

Unless your style of sailing is dip-pole gybing of the spinnaker, keep it simple.

Donald

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[jamesjermain]

I think you would probably get away with it. It's a much simpler system. For cruising purposes you can set it and forget it. And if you dip-pole gybe, you won't even have to adjust it for that either.

Because of the angle, the load on the line and fittings will be greater, but shouldn't become excessive unless you plan blast reaching in 20 knots plus. The other possible problem is the outboard end may tend to run back along the guy when you are running very broad. In some conditions you may need to run a temporary preventer to the stem.

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[doris]

Can't see how it should be that expensive. All you need is a snap shackle, a couple of blocks and some string. Having it rigged from close to the stem will make things a lot easier and give you much more control. Also it must depend to an extent, on what sort of 30 ft cruiser you are talking about. If the sails to be set are remotely serious I would have to dissagree with James.

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[Twister_Ken]

I'd say on a 30 footer its pretty marginal. Certainly used to do it that way on 1/4 tonners (approx 25 feet), but 1/2 tonners (32 feetish) used to take the downhaul pretty well vertically down to the foredeck. Course, all depends on size of kite and ambitions for flying it.

Doesn't need to permanently rigged so foredeck clutter is a temporary problem.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[charles_reed]

Don't underestimate the force exerted by the pole on the downhaul - most systems take the down haul from a junction of a wire from each end of the spi-pole to a well-backed padeye in the middle of the foredeck.

Your proposal will have so much mechanical disadvantage that i doubt you'll be able to trim the pole stationary.

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[david_e]

Give it a try and see how you get on, although as suggested, it isn't difficult to fit and set a downhaul, there is more than likely an existing point on the foredeck where you can attach it. There is a cover picture on a fairly recent YM of a cruiser with the spinnaker flying and no pole at all. Controlling the pole/downhaul is more neccessary and more difficult when reaching and also when putting it up in the first place.

We have a biggish all purpose spinnaker with a carbon pole and it is the lightness of the pole that makes handling the spi so much easier, having said that, I wouldn't want the arrangement you are proposing with alot of power around, if you were to lose or tear it the cost/inconvenience would be greater than setting it up correctly in the first place.

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[Rich_F]

Our (inherited) arrangment on a 29 footer is a bridle under the pole with a block mounted centrally on it. The downhaul clips to the port toe rail, through the block on the bridle, through a block on the starboard toe rail, then back to the cockpit along the side deck.

Don't know if this is particularly effective, as I haven't yet used it in anger!

Rich

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[qsiv]

I wouldnt risk it - the upward pull on the tack of the kite can be huge. Equally I cant see why a 'proper' system will cost lots - all it is a piece of string from the pole end down to a block lashed somewhere strong, and back to a winch, maybe on the mast. At least for the trial sail I would suspect that the components are probably on board, right now.

If you DO want spend money, do it on fancy rope for the spi guy -- a stretchy guy is a real pain - you are forever having to adjust it as the wind speed changes. With Dyneema, you set it and forget it (and it can be a size smaller than braid on braid).

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[sailorman]

lead down-haul from snapshackle on the o/board (forward) end of pole through a swivel block just abaft stem-hd, lead aft through suitable blocks to cockpit / deck winch.
simple / cheap, just make sure u keep control of it

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[yoda]

Always had mine rigged as you propose with a 2:1 tackle from the center of a bridle on the pole to the base of the mast. There can be a lot of force on it but not insurmountable on a 30ft boat. Also makes gybing easy if you wish to end for end.

Yoda

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[Strathglass]

Claymore go to this site <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.harkencompuspec.com>http://www.harkencompuspec.com</A>
and input the boat type it will then give you several options for all the control lines and rigging systems they sugest for that craft depending on anticipated usage.

They will of course list all the Harken hardware to go with their sugestions but they also give full data on their hardware.
This will allow you to look sensably at your required systems.

If your particular craft is not listed then chose one of similar style and diplacement.

Iain

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by iainsimpson on 23/01/2004 08:15 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[claymore]

Thanks for your responses

Much obliged
It is a dip pole arrangement with the pole stowed vertically along the front edge of the mast - I'd thought I'd invest in dyneema but Selden think we are an AC boat not a fat-bottomed motorsailer so the hardware would not have looked out of place on Kingfisher! Have had a revised price now which is more realistic
Thanks again

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[snowleopard]

you may also want to consider using the pole to run goosewinged. the safest wat to set this up is to fix the pole in place with uphaul and downhaul and fore /aft guys so it can't clout you round the head. to be able to swing it back & forth under control the up/downhauls need to come from the mast.

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[claymore]

Yes - I do want to do that - I've got a telescopic pole on order so that I can use it with the Genoa as well as the Spinnaker.
Thanks

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[BlueSkyNick]

I've been reading this post with some interest because of similar thoughts of my own. I expect it will be some weeks yet, but would be pleased to hear how you get on.

Good luck, either way.

<hr width=100% size=1>OK - Get Fell In you 'orrible lot! There's wine to be drunk!

 

[Roberto]

To add to comments favouring a bow fitted block for the downhaul, there is the fact that sometimes when you slacken the spi guy it simply runs through the pole end without taking the pole with itself, meaning the spinnaker clew begins flying freely some distance away from the pole end.

A forward rigged downhaul gives you the possibility of moving the pole independently from the sail, being able to keep the clew well near the pole end: if you let out some guy, just tighten the downhaul and the clew sticks with the pole end.





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[claymore]

OK - I understand what you are saying - in a dinghy I would bring in the pole to stow it and at the same time grab the corner of the spinnaker, as it comes within reach, to stuff it into its bag - or use the spinnaker downhaul to bring it into its chute. I was thinking that with a snuffer and a mast mounted pole I'd probably snuff most of the power out of the sail having eased the sheet then get rid of the pole once I'd unclipped it from the guy. My biggest concern at the moment is referred in my original post - to do with the pole skying because the sheeting angle from the mast foot may be too acute. I'm going to try it without a bow mounted downhaul and see what happens!

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[Chris_Robb]

Claymore - a comment - you say you will ease the sheet then unclip it from the end of the boom. I don't think that that is the easiest way. When we get ready to lower the spinny, we let the boom forward and lower it to about head height. we then pull the quick relase clip on the guy, - the sail flies off to leeward uunder the balnket of the main, and the sheet is pulled in and the sail then brought in amidships. I think if you let the sheet go - you will never get the load off the sail. Instead it is important to get it into the lee of the main, especially if you have a snuffer as the friction on the sail when filling is too much to snuff the snuffer.

By the way - what is you halyard arrangement. I have an external halyard to a block at the top, with the tail coming down to a small winch. This is quite a dangerous arrangement, especially if someone powers the spinny up to early when hoisting. - I would go straight to the top of the mast or as happened yesterday - I got a bloody great rope burn on my hand. If yours is an external halyard - I think as a matter of safety that a clutch on the mast would be a far safer way to do it.
Glad you got a proper spinny and not a cruising chute.

Chris


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[claymore]

Thanks for that Chris - I've only used a snuffer once and that was a while ago - I think the way you described was roughtly waht we did - I suppose it will all come back!
Yes - I'm going for a clutch on the halliard - the only thing I can't quite understand is how you fasten the snuffer to the halliard - any clues?

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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