South Devon and Cornwall headlands

[Barton Seagoon]

Good evening denizens of this illustrious forum! I will be sailing in the area between Dartmouth and Falmouth for the week from the 1st of October, my first time in that stretch of water. We don't have any set timetable to be anywhere, so we will be guided by wind and tide conditions. Can frequent sailors of that area guide me for the best times (LW+1 for example) for rounding the various headlands around that coast, such as Prawle Point, Bolt Head, Start Point etc? Are there times to avoid, when the state of tide versus swell might make them unpleasant? We will also consult the almanac but advice from local guides welcomed.

My first post on here, so please be gentle with the keelhauling

Barton.

 

[LittleSister]

It's some years since I sailed those parts, but as far as I can recall, none of those headlands are particularly problematic except in rough weather.

There are overfalls off Start Point, but they do not extend very far.

I dare say you will get more detailed advice from other forumites, but while that, and a publication like 'West Country Cruising', would be valuable for these purposes (and much more) on your trip, if you are used to interpreting charts and almanacs you should have no particular problems.

Note that the tides that week are increasing to very large ranges/strong currents at the end of the week.

 

[[70521]]

Nothing unusual about west county headlands, apart from the dragons. Between Plymouth and Falmouth Dodman Point will be your constant companion.

I have several pubs I can recommend if the weather turns.

I sail out of Plymouth but the boat is now ashore for the winter after an enjoyable 1250 nm 'summer' voyage to Peterhead and back.

 

[LittleSister]

Nothing unusual about west county headlands, apart from the dragons.

 

[LadyInBed]

Tide Stream Charts : Monty Mariner
Specifically NP254 Falmouth - Exmouth : Monty Mariner
These are a bit east for where you want.
Poole to St Albans Head : Monty Mariner
Portland Race (QV) : Monty Mariner

 

[TiggerToo]

Good evening denizens of this illustrious forum! I will be sailing in the area between Dartmouth and Falmouth for the week from the 1st of October, my first time in that stretch of water. We don't have any set timetable to be anywhere, so we will be guided by wind and tide conditions. Can frequent sailors of that area guide me for the best times (LW+1 for example) for rounding the various headlands around that coast, such as Prawle Point, Bolt Head, Start Point etc? Are there times to avoid, when the state of tide versus swell might make them unpleasant? We will also consult the almanac but advice from local guides welcomed.

My first post on here, so please be gentle with the keelhauling

Barton.

Welcome to the forums.

The headlands you mention are fairly "benign" - as long as you avoid rough weather.

No keelhauling here. The Dragons are firmly ensconced in the Lounge, and I would not recommend going there.

 

[[2574]]

Welcome to the forums.

The headlands you mention are fairly "benign" - as long as you avoid rough weather.

No keelhauling here. The Dragons are firmly ensconced in the Lounge, and I would not recommend going there.

Agreed, though Start deserves respect. But normal rules applied, such as avoid stronger wind over the tide and suchlike, then all is good.

 

[ashtead]

We went to the Dart for the first time this year and found the pilot book #2 helpful. There is a delightful beach just west of Dartmouth which is quite deserted as from the land some walk from the car park which while it lacks dragons seems to attract exhibitionist sunbathers but I suspect by now they will have all fled home. Generally Dartmouth itself holds little problems should you want motor up the river even with the ferry across river and Saga cruise liner in situ . The staff at the Dart marina on the kings wear side are most helpful and even come down to take lines ,however they do warn you about berthing times due to tidal ripe (don’t know it’s any worse in the Dart than elsewhere eg medinaor hamble though) so if considering berthing I would be checking tide times for marina berthing to find a slack point. Do tell us what’s West of Dartmouth though and if friendly ports of rest can be found.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Good evening denizens of this illustrious forum! I will be sailing in the area between Dartmouth and Falmouth for the week from the 1st of October, my first time in that stretch of water. We don't have any set timetable to be anywhere, so we will be guided by wind and tide conditions. Can frequent sailors of that area guide me for the best times (LW+1 for example) for rounding the various headlands around that coast, such as Prawle Point, Bolt Head, Start Point etc? Are there times to avoid, when the state of tide versus swell might make them unpleasant? We will also consult the almanac but advice from local guides welcomed.

My first post on here, so please be gentle with the keelhauling

Barton.

Hi Barton, I sail this regularly. It is best to be well off Start point (Maybe half mile or more) as there is no inside passage.. The important thing to remember is the current does not change direction till 2 hours after HW or LW.

So if you need slack to get round a difficulty or run to speed you on your way you need to take account of when it changes

So running west you can start about an hour after HW and get good lift west till 2 hours after LW. The currents are such that if your boat can do maybe 4.5kt you can push against tides though it will be slow and boring particularly near headlands and it is better to wait for the right tide.

The whole are gets short seas and west channel chop, but wind over tide does not get generally monstrous till beyond the Lizard when even F5 can be alarming. The chop will slow you down and rattle your teacups however, and turning on the engine to increase speed bounces you even more. Of course the region normally has westerly wind so the outgoing current by definition gives wind over tide. You can wait for an easterly but they are rare in October.

We normally set off down wind in whatever direction and if there are suitable windless days towards the end of the trip and time is short, simply motor back.

 

[[70521]]

If you are investing in a pilot book I suggest getting the Imray one as it gives you the information that you need, I find the Shell lacking in detail and waffles on about a bygone age.

 

[johnalison]

Sailing round headlands is one of the great joys of sailing in the West Country and I have never viewed it as a problem. I have never bothered to give any of them any more clearance than what was required not to hit them, usually passing at a natural distance. They are all lovely to look at and I like to sail into the bays to get the best views, and possibly get to see some wildlife, such as the shearwaters that seem to like Start Point.

 

[LadyInBed]

The important thing to remember is the current does not change direction till 2 hours after HW or LW.

Useful info, but HW or LW where?
NP254 references tide stream to Devonport and gives slack to W going at about HW Devonport +4 and slack to E going at about HW Devonport -3

 

[longjohnsilver]

Useful info, but HW or LW where?
NP254 references tide stream to Devonport and gives slack to W going at about HW Devonport +4 and slack to E going at about HW Devonport -3

As a diver I take a great interest in tides, and especially slack water. In my experience slack water is approx HW - 2 or 3 hours, then going east, and HW + 3 or 4 hours, then turning westerly, depending on whether it’s a neap or spring tide. All timings are for local HW.
For Start Point I have always passed just a few hundred meters off the rocks. You do need to keep a very good lookout for pot buoys which can be almost submerged by any current.

 

[LadyInBed]

As a diver I take a great interest in tides, and especially slack water. In my experience slack water is approx HW - 2 or 3 hours, then going east, and HW + 3 or 4 hours, then turning westerly, depending on whether it’s a neap or spring tide. All timings are for local HW.

That pretty well concurs with NP254
I'm also an (ex) diver.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

The difference in HW between Dartmouth and Plymouth is small and likewise Plymouth and Falmouth. My chart plotter claims to give more detail on currents but 200m further inshore it might be quite different in both direction and speed. You have about 7 or so hours of favourable currents and with the moderate tides of S Cornwall or S Devon tide rise the exact height is rarely critical for most boats

 

[oldmanofthehills]

If you are investing in a pilot book I suggest getting the Imray one as it gives you the information that you need, I find the Shell lacking in detail and waffles on about a bygone age.

I manage with the antique Shell book but it does mislead about facilities and presumes more basic depth gauges or none, and has never heard of chart plotters. Most transits are fairly redundant in practice

 

[Nosher]

Without knowing what sort of boat you're sailing, I would respectfully advise a little more caution at Start Point, and to give it a bit more than half a mile off at anything other than slack water or very benign conditions. It's not going to sink you but it can be quite unpleasant if you cut it too fine, and the race extends to the SE by a good couple of miles in any sort of weather. Might add an hour to your passage time, but in my view it's usually worth it.

There is an inshore passage except in strong easterlies, but as LJS said you need to be confident enough to go in perhaps closer than you might think and there can be quite a few pot markers; not a place to get hung by the prop.

Other headlands including the Bolts, Rame, Dodman etc all have their overfalls to a varying degree but it's pretty clear how far they extend so I wouldn't worry too much about letting them dictate passage planning.

Have a great week, as soon as you're west of the Dart, it just gets better and better.

 

[LadyInBed]

The difference in HW between Dartmouth and Plymouth is small and likewise Plymouth and Falmouth

?
Plymouth and Falmouth is about 18 mins
Plymouth and Dartmouth is about 30 mins
HW difference wrt HW Dover : Monty Mariner

 

[jimi]

Agree Start Point can be rough in bad weather, I've seen some double decker sized waves there when there been a big swell. I've also found Prawle to be very uncomfortable in wind over tide. Dodman is fine, if you do get in the rough stuff its over very quickly as its only a short stretch that is affected, there is allegedly an inshore passage but when its been rough I've tended to stay well away from hard lumps of the coast rather than go close in ;-)

 

[DJE]

Always found everything I need to know for that area in Reeds Channel Almanac.