Solar v Wind

[toad]

I have a 30w solar panel mounted on the hatch garage and a Rutland 913 on the stern both fed through a Marlec regulator which counts up the amps going in to the battery's. After a years use on a swinging mooring on the east coast I have the following results, total hours generating power=5330 hours, solar panel produced 917ah and the wind generator produced 1740 ah. Not including the regulator the 913 cost about £600 and the solar panel cost £150 so my back of a fag packet calculations tell me that the solar panel produced 5.39ah a day and the wind generator 10.23ah a day. Spread over one year solar amps cost me 16p a day and wind amps 34p a day.
I suppose every year they keep working the costs half. Going by these results if you have room solar is the way to go but the most I have seen from the panel is about two amps whilst the wind geny can kick out 15amps at times.
I hope these rough calculations help anyone making a decision on which way to go.

 

[single]

Wind is better while using the boat. Solar better if left for longer periods.

 

[jerrytug]

Toad, did you leave your 913 unattended, and hope it coped with whatever wind blew?
Or tie it off just in case, or go and tie it off if a gale was forecast?
I have been offered one and if I buy it ( probably) I would hope to be leaving it charging while away from the boat for a few days.
Some seen to cope but a few disintegrate..
Good to hear about the amount of amps going in though.
cheers Jerry

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I agree, I also have a Rutland 913 which has been working trouble free for the last 8 years, however, when the time comes for replacement I will replace it for a solar panel. Photovoltaic technology has been improved a lot in the last 5 years, giving reliable, efficient, relatively low cost, moving part-free power.

 

[toad]

Toad, did you leave your 913 unattended, and hope it coped with whatever wind blew?
Or tie it off just in case, or go and tie it off if a gale was forecast?
I have been offered one and if I buy it ( probably) I would hope to be leaving it charging while away from the boat for a few days.
Some seen to cope but a few disintegrate..
Good to hear about the amount of amps going in though.
cheers Jerry

Left to its own devices when afloat but taken down in winter, the boat next to me in the boat yard had his running in the storm last month with no ill effects. In all honesty I think you need a balance of wind and solar in the UK.

 

[jerrytug]

Left to its own devices when afloat but taken down in winter, the boat next to me in the boat yard had his running in the storm last month with no ill effects. In all honesty I think you need a balance of wind and solar in the UK.

Aha taken down in winter. I agree about the balance, thanks.

 

[Storyline]

+1 on the balance. I like the 913 because it has a good go at keeping up with our needs when cruising. However, having blown our Marlec regulator in a storm in Scotland last winter, I am getting solar for trickle charging in the winter so I can tie off the 913.

 

[Mistroma]

I have a 30w solar panel mounted on the hatch garage and a Rutland 913 on the stern both fed through a Marlec regulator which counts up the amps going in to the battery's. After a years use on a swinging mooring on the east coast I have the following results, total hours generating power=5330 hours, solar panel produced 917ah and the wind generator produced 1740 ah. Not including the regulator the 913 cost about £600 and the solar panel cost £150 so my back of a fag packet calculations tell me that the solar panel produced 5.39ah a day and the wind generator 10.23ah a day. Spread over one year solar amps cost me 16p a day and wind amps 34p a day.
I suppose every year they keep working the costs half. Going by these results if you have room solar is the way to go but the most I have seen from the panel is about two amps whilst the wind geny can kick out 15amps at times.
I hope these rough calculations help anyone making a decision on which way to go.

I've given figures before and my Rutland 913 always seems to average out at around 10Ah/day over the sailing season. I have also seen remains of a couple of 913s after a bad storm (80mph+) and there wasn't much left. I've never trusted it enough to leave it up during the winter and it isn't needed just to keep up with self-discharge.

My figures are even more biased towards solar because installation was a bit more expensive than yours and initial solar panel cost was lower. I bought a rigid 65W BP from eBay and it performed so well that I added another 2 x 40W. More sun in Galicia than Scotland over the summer so that makes solar complete no brainer. Performance has been close to my predicted values and I think (need to check) that I'd still get decent output in Scotland (~75%-80% of output in Galicia in peak 2 months of summer).

I can't see the sense on a later comment that "Wind is better while using the boat. Solar better if left for longer periods.". This really only applies if you have a large wind-gen and a tiny panel only meant to trickle charge. I've found that the opposite is true during the sailing season with a 913. However, I tend to spend a lot of time at anchor. The panels still beat the wind-gen when day sailing. They might be shaded by the sails and Wind-gen putting out a few Amps. but this changes as soon as the sails are down or you change tack.

The main problem with solar isn't really whether they perform better than a wind gen. or not. It's more an matter of how to find a decent location to put in panels able to keep up with daily usage. Rigid panels are pretty cheap but most people struggle to find enough space. The much more expensive wind-gen. provides a little extra power fairly regularly with the odd rare day where it actually keeps up with demand.

 

[BrianH]

It can depend on where you sail. I started with an Air-X over 10 years ago and it still is going strong - too strong at times of high winds when its 400W output exceeds the 35A rating limit of the connecting components.

For the past two years I have added a 100W solar panel and I now see that is the best way to go. But then I am in the Adriatic and on balance we get more sun than wind.

 

[NormanS]

Interesting figures. Like many things, it all depends....
It depends on the climate where you sail.
If your requirement is power in the summer, then solar probably wins.
If you sail, or require power for three or four seasons in the year, wind probably wins.
It depends on the practicalities of installation.
It depends on the depth of your pockets.

 

[oldvarnish]

It can depend on where you sail.

I think it really is as simple as that.

(Congrats to the OP for taking the trouble to come up with those figures. V interesting, and pretty much the conclusion arrived at in a US magazine I was reading)

 

[greenalien]

the 913 cost about £600 and the solar panel cost £150

The OP quotes £150 for a 30W panel - these days, you can get a 60W panel for around £100, so solar is much more cost-effective. Nobody has mentioned the noise wind-generators make onboard, impossible to sleep with one running, so no use at night if you're living aboard.

 

[allanc]

Just wanted to make a response re noise- some wind generaters are noisy - but our Aerogen4 is so quiet that often we look up to see if it is actually spinning at all- and it is- no noise, no vibration, although it did whoosh at about 50knots. Good power generation at 18 knots and above. Had one for probably 15 years, easy installation 'fit and forget'. always on.

 

[BrianH]

Nobody has mentioned the noise wind-generators make onboard, impossible to sleep with one running, so no use at night if you're living aboard.

That's far too emphatic and subjective a statement. My Air-X is known as one of the noisiest - although to me it is not obtrusive below with winds below 20 knots ... and I am truly allergic to noise. Especially unfrapped halyards clanging on metal masts in a marina when the wind gets up, plus its sound in a forest of rigging, which can be far louder than my wind generator. If it would be enabled, which in a marina it never is, nor in any environment where others may be, when it has the 'stop' switch set to short the output and cause the blades to slowly windmill in silence.

It comes into its own when sailing when its output can keep up with refrigerator and instruments; if the wind is not enough to sail the engine's alternator keeps the batteries well charged. At anchor the solar panel does that job, but only during daylight, at night I can always sleep with the wind generator working until a gale arrives and I am then awoken by the swishing blade noise and need to shut it down. I also keep it so if there is anyone close in the anchorage whatever the wind speed.

Part of the reason why my installation is acceptable, I think, is that everything - pole and struts - is mounted on solid rubber blocks so no vibration permeates into the cabin.

 

[C08]

Thanks for the figures Toad, really good to see some facts as manufacturers stats are misleading to say the least.
A few observations. My Rutland 913 has been running continuously (never tied off or switched to OFF) for 7 years now controlled by the older HRDi regulator. As I understand it the regulator slows down the blades when the batteries are regulating and when observed on the boat slows the blades to a slow rotation when very strong winds are trying to overcharge the batteries. Done a number of winters in N Wales and S Coast afloat without any problems yet! If you are only concerned about keeping the batteries topped up when you are off the boat then solar is far better and about 1/7 the capaital cost excluding a regulator which is a cost common to both. If you are living on the boat and consuming powe on those long wet and dull periods you get even in summer you need a wind generator to keep the batteries up. The problem with solar panels as others have said is where you site them. I was on a pontoon on the S Coast in the summer and the boat
on the other side was a 35/36 ft Hallberg Rassy and the chap was wandering about with a small(60W) panel trying to find a bit of deck or coachroof where he could place it without it being trodden on, slipped on, or being generally in the way. I have 2x 100 w panels on the wheelhouse roof of my small (27ft) catamaran and this combined with the 913 makes us totally self powered living on the boat from spring to autumn but still the batteries get low during the winter months with TV, heater, fridge , lights etc when the solar charge is much less.
My Rutland is solidly mounted and there is no noise or vibration under 25 knots and a little noise over that wind speed.

 

[Storyline]

Are there any types of solar panels that are better than others for use in a less than very sunny environment (Scotland) ?

 

[NormanS]

My 913, mounted on the mizzen mast was noisy in the aft cabin, but new bearings sorted that. (Thanks Lloyd).
It's never switched off, and if it's really windy, there's so much other noise that you don't hear it at all. The only thing I don't like is when it is regulating, it produces heat, and in order to dissipate the heat it goes into "Hyperdrive" until it cools.

 

[KellysEye]

>Going by these results if you have room solar is the way to go but the most I have seen from the panel is about two amps whilst the wind geny can kick out 15amps at times.

I'm not sure why you would go solar when the wind generator is giving you 1.89 times the power of the solar panel. I can see the cost argument but I'd go for the highest power, we had a wind generator.

>Nobody has mentioned the noise wind-generators make on board, impossible to sleep with one running, so no use at night if you're living aboard.

We lived aboard for six and a half years with a wind generator on the mizzen mast directly above our heads in the aft cabin where we slept. We also had an Ampair and they are fairly quiet so had no problems sleeping. On the other hand there is one seriously loud and annoying one but I can't remember the brand.

>Wind is better while using the boat. Solar better if left for longer periods.

Why? If you have a regulator then you can run the wind generator all day every year, for years on end.

 

[jerrytug]

My 913, mounted on the mizzen mast was noisy in the aft cabin, but new bearings sorted that. (Thanks Lloyd).
It's never switched off, and if it's really windy, there's so much other noise that you don't hear it at all. The only thing I don't like is when it is regulating, it produces heat, and in order to dissipate the heat it goes into "Hyperdrive" until it cools.

That's interesting and I am getting the impression that 913 success depends on the regulator design, would you say that the heat sink is too small, thus resorting to hyperdrive sooner than might be neccessary?
I'm hopefully getting a 913 in a few days and I would be prepared for a regulator project or modification.
I wonder if any electronic whizz-kids have made a bullet-proof design?

(chargewise, I'm hoping to keep up with a clunky old Webasto heater and ipad charging while living aboard in winter in UK)
Personally am really excited to be getting free leccy from the wind, and I am ready for bearing replacement and regulator modification to get it right. I also sleep best with the sound of machinery running so am lucky in that respect!

Good to hear positive stories about the 913 as I have been offered one, cheers Jerry

 

[[3889]]

Thanks for publishing these data. I've always "felt" solar was a better option, especially in France, and this seems to support that. As I've just bought a 100W panel for <£100 it seems to offer even better value than you have experienced.