Soft shackle recommendation please

[Irish Rover]

I've never used or even handled a soft shackle, and I know nothing about them so I'm looking for advice. Below is a picture of the bridle on my catamaran attached to the 10mm chain. My wife finds it very difficult to attach/detach the shackle and I'm wondering if a soft shackle would be easier. I'm happy to buy one to experiment and I just need to know what to buy - dia, length etc. Boat is 13m x 6.72m power catamaran.

 

[Daydream believer]

Get a chain hook instead of that eye & snap hook. Then the whole set up could be much neater.
Less chance of her getting her fingers caught in the links as well

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Is the anchoring load going through that snap hook, because if so, snap hooks are weak and should not be used in any application that takes significant load? Compare the size of the pin on the snap hook to that on the shackle - it's tiny.

Here's an 8mm snap hook which looks about what you have. Working load limit is a pathetic 230 kg...

SNAP HOOK 8X80MM STAINLESS STEEL - Pinnacle Hardware

By comparison, a chain hook for 10mm chain has a working load limit of 2500 kg...

Mantus Chain Hook MK2

The Mantus chain hook above comes with a suitable shackle for connecting to your bridle. You only need to do it once and then mouse it. It's not a cheap bit of kit, but appropriate for the job and easy to use.

 

[Daydream believer]

I was looking at something easier to use & more sensibly priced like this
chain hook

 

[Irish Rover]

I was looking at something easier to use & more sensibly priced like this
chain hook

Thanks. I was using one on my previous power cat where it was a bit easier to keep some tension on the bridle when letting it out. Very difficult to do on this one because of the bridle set up and the very limited gap at the anchor roller.

 

[MontyMariner]

Thanks. I was using one on my previous power cat where it was a bit easier to keep some tension on the bridle when letting it out. Very difficult to do on this one because of the bridle set up and the very limited gap at the anchor roller.

If you look at the Jimmy Green link and scroll down to 'you may also like' there are numerous flavours, one of them might suit your need and pocket better!
The kong one looks good at a sensible price.

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks for all the replies.
I want to buy a soft shackle to experiment with it. I'm just looking for some advice about material, length, dia etc.

 

[noelex]

We have used a "high strength" 5mm soft shackle on our 10mm chain and it was easy to thread through the links. A reasonably long soft shackle is best for this application and this allows it to be a captured soft shackle and therefore it cannot be lost even if it undone.

The best solution is to make your own.

 

[Irish Rover]

We have used a "high strength" 5mm soft shackle on our 10mm chain and it was easy to thread through the links. A reasonably long soft shackle is best for this application and this allows it to be a captured soft shackle and therefore it cannot be lost even if it undone.

The best solution is to make your own.

Thank you. I'm hopeless at splicing etc and I wouldn't trust anything I might make myself.
So 5mm high strength. How long approximately?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I was looking at something easier to use & more sensibly priced like this
chain hook

Your favourite type of boat - multihulls - often anchor in shallow water and use a long bridle. This means that the chain hook can be on a part of the chain that's on the seabed. The type of hook you suggest nearly always falls off in this situation. The Mantus one is better in this regard as it is positively held in place. The Kong one is also positively held in place but looks a fiddle to use.

 

[noelex]

Longer rather than shorter works best for this application. Ours are about 150mm (six inches) long when closed or 300mm (one foot) when open. I think you may struggle to buy one this long so just pick the longest one you can find.

With a shorter soft shackle you may be putting the buried portion (which is a little thicker) through the chain link, but it should still fit.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

So 5mm high strength.

A 5mm soft shackle has a WLL of about 1000kg - when new - which is still only a fifth of the strength of the chain. Better than the snap hook and fine for good weather. However, they get abraded easily, and I should think especially so threaded through a link in a galvanised chain.

 

[Irish Rover]

Longer rather than shorter works best for this application. Ours are about 150mm (six inches) long when closed or 300mm (one foot) when open. I think you may struggle to buy one this long so just pick the longest one you can find.

With a shorter soft shackle you may be putting the buried portion (which is a little thicker) through the chain link, but it should still fit.

Thanks again. Please don't tell anyone I'm so clueless

 

[noelex]

Thanks again. Please don't tell anyone I'm so clueless

Soft shackles have only become viable for these high strength applications since the development of Dyneema and other HMWPE materials, together with the development of knots and techniques that work with these slippery fibres. We are all learning how to apply soft shackles, where they work better than traditional metal shackles, and where they are not so successful.

At least you have an open mind and are prepared to give these newer solutions a try .

 

[Tillana]

We have used a "high strength" 5mm soft shackle on our 10mm chain and it was easy to thread through the links. A reasonably long soft shackle is best for this application and this allows it to be a captured soft shackle and therefore it cannot be lost even if it undone.

The best solution is to make your own.

By 'captured', do you mean larks footing it on the chain?
Just be careful as this weakens textiles. Not sure about Dyneema, but polyamide slings are weakened by up to 50% when used in this configuration.

 

[noelex]

No. The photo below shows the arrangement.

The advantage is when the shackle is opened (as shown) it will still not detach from the snubber and drop in the water.

 

[noelex]

A 5mm soft shackle has a WLL of about 1000kg - when new - which is still only a fifth of the strength of the chain. Better than the snap hook and fine for good weather. However, they get abraded easily, and I should think especially so threaded through a link in a galvanised chain.

My knot guru says her 5 mm high strength soft shackles have a break load of around 7440 kgf so a SWL of 1500 kgf (using a conservative safety factor of 5:1.)

The soft shackle connecting the chain to the snubber does not need to be stronger than the chain, but it should be stronger than snubber. 10mm nylon has a breaking load of around 2000 kgf, 12mm is around 3100 kgf, 14mm 4000 kgf and 16mm 4800 kgf. However nylon has a significantly lower breaking load when wet and exposed to UV so in practice the break load will be even lower than these numbers suggest.

If you are worried about the soft shackle not meeting the chain strength (although there is no reason to consider this for a chain to snubber connection) 10mm G30 chain has break load of around 5100 kgf (a SWL of 1300 kgf) 10mm G40 6300 kgf (a SWL of 1600 kgf).

As you can see, the breaking load of the soft shackle will be significantly higher than any snubber that would be used on a boat using 10mm chain. The strength of the soft shackle should not be an issue although you do need to do the comparison (based on the snubber strength) if using to G70+ chain.

 

[Daydream believer]

No. The photo below shows the arrangement.

The advantage is when the shackle is opened (as shown) it will still not detach from the snubber and drop in the water.

View attachment 182538

I would not be happy with that set up. The legs are equal which means the knot and associated loopwill settle right on the chain link. That will make it awkward to release. One leg ( the one with the loop) needs to be much longer so that the joint is 50% of the way down the loop. This is another reason the total loop would be better bigger rather than smaller. Say 200mm when closed

 

[noelex]

I would not be happy with that set up. The legs are equal which means the knot and associated loopwill settle right on the chain link. That will make it awkward to release. One leg ( the one with the loop) needs to be much longer so that the joint is 50% of the way down the loop. This is another reason the total loop would be better bigger rather than smaller. Say 200mm when closed

The bend was just positioned centrally in the photo to clarify how the captive part is threaded. There is no need for the bend to be central and the shackle will not settle on the same spot on a chain link each time. It can be positioned anywhere. Give it a try and you see what I mean.

There is no necessity to use a captive soft shackle, the captive part is just a nice addition that saves losing the shackle overboard if you are little careless.

 

[MontyMariner]

The advantage is when the shackle is opened (as shown) it will still not detach from the snubber and drop in the water.

Cow hitch SC onto an eye spice would be my preference.