So, what is wrong with the RNLI?

[trapezeartist]

The bottom line is: the RNLI does a good job of fulfilling it's remit. If it's only 90% as good as it could be, let's not throw out the baby with the bath water, we can just offer our opinions to try to get them to 92% or 95% or...

Press adverts that promote sea safety seem like a not unreasonable use of RNLI funds, especially if the pot is flowing over. I do have a bit of an issue with the actual content of the current advert that I have seen though:
EVEN IN SUMMER, COLD WATER SHOCK CAN KILL YOU IN MINUTES. ALWAYS WEAR YOUR LIFEJACKET.

Does the life jacket warm the water up? Or does it insulate me from the cold? Or does it change my metabolism? Or does it just keep my corpse afloat for longer?

 

[oldfatgit]

Overall I am an enthusiastic supporter but was surprised to read an RNLI advert that said 'only swim on a lifeguarded beach'.

If that had been the case in the past I would never have gone swimming in the sea......

I think that is a step too far.

Here again we meet the problem they face. I'd assert that for the vast majority of people the injunction is a good piece of advice and likely to be taken as such. For those who have experience, training or simply justified confidence, it sounds like an unnecessary order. So, better to irritate a few and protect the many in my view, but even better to not irritate the few by use of a form of words which do not sound so authoritarian. But the priority should be to protect the many.

 

[oldfatgit]

What they really mean, I suspect, is "Parents, your children will DIE unless you persuade your local council to pay us for a lifeguarding service"

No, at 2% of income generated they are only covering their costs, maybe not even that. I do suspect, though, that there is some obscure legal reason why it is better for the Council to contract the service from the RNLI rather than take it for free.

What's next - only sail when there's a safety boat at hand?

With the speed and reliability of the service as it stands, that is effectively what you have already. Something I find quite comforting, but not a cause for complacency on my part.

Stuff 'em.

Fortunately should you need their services (not impossible even if at very low odds) they will not adopt the same attitude to you.

 

[oldfatgit]

EVEN IN SUMMER, COLD WATER SHOCK CAN KILL YOU IN MINUTES. ALWAYS WEAR YOUR LIFEJACKET.

Does the life jacket warm the water up? Or does it insulate me from the cold? Or does it change my metabolism? Or does it just keep my corpse afloat for longer?

It is a fact, proven by rigorous research carried out by the MOD, that to expend energy swimming to stay afloat, causes one to loose heat and strength faster than if you do not. If wearing a life jacket one should put on the hood, curl up into a ball, and keep still to prolong life, only expending energy swimming where it will improve your situation (such as swim for a life raft or river bank).

 

[pvb]

If wearing a life jacket one should put on the hood...

You know, all this theory is great stuff, but what about the practicality? To start with, how many lifejackets have hoods?

And, if the RNLI truly believes that lifejackets are so important, why don't they offer them in their online shop?

 

[prv]

You know, all this theory is great stuff, but what about the practicality? To start with, how many lifejackets have hoods?

More and more these days, which is a very good thing if you expect to end up in rough water. Mine do.

Pete

 

[nyx2k]

maybe more people would buy life jackets if the rnli offered them at cost prices so the newcomers see them as a cheaper extra.
they could buy tens of thousands with a massive discount.

 

[glashen]

I'm a bit surprised with all the posts saying the RNLI is doing too much, to find suggestions they should go into selling lifejackets!

 

[Deleted member 36384]

We're starting to get into the silly stuff now.

No need to paraphrase the above. The RNLI selling safety gear is not appropriate as their endorsement of a product may have significant impact on a market, for example.

 

[DougH]

Long live the RNLI in it's present form and good on yer oldfatgit for your support of such a marvellous organisation.

 

[fireball]

Whilst I detest being told what I can and can't do ... I do understand where the RNLI are coming from in the 'wear your LJ' and 'Only swim where we tell you' mesgs ...

Today's society has become obessed with 'blame' and pointing the finger elsewhere. The RNLI (I hope) are targetting this portion of the population who are too thick to think for themselves (or just can't be bothered to judge their own safety).
Obviously it isn't easy to spot those that don't need targetting so a blanket mesg is what's used.

I hope I never need them - but I want them there incase I do, cos when I do I will really need them.

 

[pvb]

The RNLI selling safety gear is not appropriate as their endorsement of a product may have significant impact on a market, for example.

That really isn't a sensible statement. Do you think, for example, that Which? magazine's endorsements of products are detrimental? The RNLI should certainly sell safety gear - rather than rubbish like their Daisy Bird Baths and Talking Frogs.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

That really isn't a sensible statement. Do you think, for example, that Which? magazine's endorsements of products are detrimental? The RNLI should certainly sell safety gear - rather than rubbish like their Daisy Bird Baths and Talking Frogs.

The RNLI's involvement could easily be detrimental to a competitive market - it's one thing to ignore Which magazine ( it has a very spotty record) about a vacuum cleaner and another altogether to ignore the RNLI about ( say) a lifejacket.

That said I really can't understand the reaction the RNLI get on here and I suspect that overwhelmingly it is from people who have had nothing to do with them. For example, the posts about forced rescues - has anyone here ever experienced it? And do you think that a rescue situation is one where democracy and debate ought to flourish or one where someone should take control? And what exactly is wrong with the RNLI advising people to wear life jackets? We have lots of self appointed pious types on here wittering on about speed limits dont we, and at least the RNLI have some qualification to advise.

My doubts about the RNLI revolve round money where what I see of the organisation makes me wonder if they have drifted into the situation that affects most organisations , from local authorities to private companies namely bloat. It's often just too easy for empires to be built, for apparatchiks to promote stupid ides, for any frugality ( and charities owe it to the givers to be frugal) to go out of the window.

The guys who take the risks and do the rescues arent paid. Why should anyone else be? Someone earlier mentioned ex RN ypes who have retired on a public pension - why shouldnt these people be retired later and seconded to the RNLI effectively foc for a few years?

 

[pvb]

The RNLI's involvement could easily be detrimental to a competitive market - it's one thing to ignore Which magazine ( it has a very spotty record) about a vacuum cleaner and another altogether to ignore the RNLI about ( say) a lifejacket.

I must be very slow today, because I still don't understand why the RNLI shouldn't sell safety gear. It's a perfect fit for their business and, with high-value safety products, the contribution to their vast coffers could be impressive. The AA sells safety gear, is that detrimental? And I don't understand why your justification revolves around people ignoring the RNLI.

 

[oldfatgit]

You know, all this theory is great stuff, but what about the practicality? To start with, how many lifejackets have hoods?

And, if the RNLI truly believes that lifejackets are so important, why don't they offer them in their online shop?

It is a matter of fact that the wearing of a correctly fitting life jacket prolongs ones life and thereby increases one’s chances of detection before dying. The one who survived the longest when the Ouzo was hit by the Pride of Bilbao was James Meaby (12 hours) whereas the others, who probably donned theirs on abandoning the sinking yacht, lasted only 3 hours. In this crotch straps are the best piece of equipment for ensuring that the lifejacket stays in place when in the water.

There are other incidents where people have died not of hypothermia and exhaustion but from drowning, even whilst wearing a life jacket. They drowned because they could not stop their legs rising up in front of them as the wind blew them along. This turned their faces into the sea. Wearing a hood means that one is able to breath even when waves are hitting your face.

Finally, if the crew of the Ouzo had lights fitted then their chances of being seen at night are greatly increased, had the Pride of Bilbao raised the alarm, they almost certainly would have been found. All details are available at the MAiB site for free download.

That is why I have crotch straps, hoods and lights, on my combined lifejackets and harnesses which are complete with safety lines and please, putting aside all sensitivities, please fit yours with the same and turn your good bit of kit into the right bit of kit.

As for the online shop not selling practical stuff, their endorsement of any one brand would be very detrimental to other brands. They sell RNLI memorabilia; souvineers for the average tourist and other knick-knacks; they do not compete with chandlers because that would not be fair on chandlers.

 

[oldfatgit]

maybe more people would buy life jackets if the rnli offered them at cost prices so the newcomers see them as a cheaper extra.
they could buy tens of thousands with a massive discount.

Sorry, I take full responsibility for my sailing and purchase the right kit to go, if you can’t afford it then adjust your aspirations. I take full responsibility for the risks I take and don’t expect the RNLI to subsidise my equipment or come to my rescue, however, if I were to cry for help then I am glad that they will. Often I don’t wear a life jacket as it is a risk I am prepared to take, but if I think I should then I do and, in part, I am more willing to as a result of the RNLI’s campaign.

 

[nyx2k]

so you are saying that if the rnli sold an lj with their own branding then that would be unfair, then so what.
it could be considered by some to be unfair to pay 50-100 pounds for a life jacket especialy when they need 5 or 6 just as they are starting out with a 500 pound boat and engine from ebay or is this not a concern because they havent got a 250k boat.

its these sort of newcomers the rnli is aiming at i beleive because the people on this forum all know the facts and choose on those merits to wear an lj or not.
if the rnli sold a basic jacket for beginners in the £30 range then all would be bought before the new purchase saw the water with several children on board

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Don't know if you saw this, but the RNLI have replied directly on the forum.

It is here:- http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2610865&postcount=89

 

[pvb]

That is why I have crotch straps, hoods and lights, on my combined lifejackets and harnesses which are complete with safety lines and please, putting aside all sensitivities, please fit yours with the same and turn your good bit of kit into the right bit of kit.

But, as I pointed out, most lifejackets don't have hoods (or crotch straps, or lights). Do a UK Google search for lifejacket and the key suppliers are mainly selling lifejackets without these features. Shouldn't the RNLI be campaigning to get minimum standards for lifejackets?

As for the online shop not selling practical stuff, their endorsement of any one brand would be very detrimental to other brands. They sell RNLI memorabilia; souvineers for the average tourist and other knick-knacks; they do not compete with chandlers because that would not be fair on chandlers.

It's a business, and "fair" doesn't enter into it. Do you think someone setting up a new retail business would decide not to because it "would not be fair" to other retailers? If the RNLI were running their retail business sensibly, they'd only offer RNLI-branded items anyway, so it wouldn't be detrimental to other brands - it would simply be a competitor.

 

[oldfatgit]

so you are saying that if the rnli sold an lj with their own branding then that would be unfair, then so what.
it could be considered by some to be unfair to pay 50-100 pounds for a life jacket especialy when they need 5 or 6 just as they are starting out with a 500 pound boat and engine from ebay or is this not a concern because they havent got a 250k boat.

its these sort of newcomers the rnli is aiming at i beleive because the people on this forum all know the facts and choose on those merits to wear an lj or not.
if the rnli sold a basic jacket for beginners in the £30 range then all would be bought before the new purchase saw the water with several children on board

Good point, hadn't thought of that. I was going to suggest that they could endorse a number of lifejackets but leave others to sell them, but that wouldn't help in your example. Need to think on this one.