Snuffers on cruising chutes - a good idea?

[mainsail1]

I am thinking of buying a cruising chute to replace my spinnaker. Some people think a snuffer is essential, some not.

As I have never used a cruising chute any advice would be appreciated.

 

[sailorman]

very good short handed & as long as all the strings are lead correctly

 

[MoodySabre]

There are two camps here. I'm in the for snuffer camp. The continuous line needs to run inside a sleeve on the inside of the snuffer to prevent it getting wrapped round the chute.

 

[sailor211]

very good short handed & as long as all the strings are lead correctly

Agreed. Very good single handed.

I would also consider a fuller for a chute.

 

[flaming]

I hate the things.

I can see the point, ish, but to me they have several problems.

1. They are of absolutely no use after things have gone wrong. If you've left it up a bit too long and have been caught out and have broached your snuffer will do nothing for you. If the boat won't come up you're going to have to drop the halyard the normal way. And if you're only used to a snuffer you're going to struggle with this.
2. To drop you have to go onto the foredeck and look up whilst operating lines. Not a secure position to be in. If you do, please sit down!
3. If you gybe you have to then lead the snuffer lines around the forestay. And if you're using a snuffer in conjunction with a symmetrical kite you're in a right mess because you are now also the wrong side of the pole, and more importantly the pole up. As far as I've worked out you need to store the snuffer controls at the forestay and gybe the pole inside them to stand any chance.
4. On the hoist you have to be on the foredeck at exactly the time you want to be in the cockpit trimming the thing to get it full and not wrapped round things. Fine if you've got a couple of crew, but if you're shorthanded....
5. Ditto the drop, you can't snuff the thing whilst it's full in any sort of breeze, so you have to collapse it. If you're the one doing that, you then have to sprint up to the foredeck and start snuffing before it decided to wrap itself around something.
6. Snuffing and unsnuffing are difficult with the headsail out, so you're only relying on the blanket from the main, not the jib too.

And I haven't even started on the propensity of the damn things to get twisted up and jam...

Now I appreciate that handling the kite for a 40 footer would be challenging for a cruising couple without a snuffer, but when I see 30 footers with snuffers I can't help wondering if they'd enjoy the experience a lot more if they had the confidence to fly it free.
And if you are in a 40 footer with a snuffer, remember to take it down in good time because if the effluent does hit the spinny thing your snuffer will be of no use at all....

I think the furling cruising chutes have much more potential, though I haven't actually used one yet.

 

[Ravi]

Unless you have plenty of bored crew looking for things to do, I would definitely advocate a snuffer. They are relatively cheap, compared to the cost of the chute, so, why not?

 

[Ravi]

I hate the things.

I can see the point, ish, but to me they have several problems.

1. They are of absolutely no use after things have gone wrong. If you've left it up a bit too long and have been caught out and have broached your snuffer will do nothing for you. If the boat won't come up you're going to have to drop the halyard the normal way. And if you're only used to a snuffer you're going to struggle with this.
2. To drop you have to go onto the foredeck and look up whilst operating lines. Not a secure position to be in. If you do, please sit down!
3. If you gybe you have to then lead the snuffer lines around the forestay. And if you're using a snuffer in conjunction with a symmetrical kite you're in a right mess because you are now also the wrong side of the pole, and more importantly the pole up. As far as I've worked out you need to store the snuffer controls at the forestay and gybe the pole inside them to stand any chance.
4. On the hoist you have to be on the foredeck at exactly the time you want to be in the cockpit trimming the thing to get it full and not wrapped round things. Fine if you've got a couple of crew, but if you're shorthanded....
5. Ditto the drop, you can't snuff the thing whilst it's full in any sort of breeze, so you have to collapse it. If you're the one doing that, you then have to sprint up to the foredeck and start snuffing before it decided to wrap itself around something.
6. Snuffing and unsnuffing are difficult with the headsail out, so you're only relying on the blanket from the main, not the jib too.

And I haven't even started on the propensity of the damn things to get twisted up and jam...

Now I appreciate that handling the kite for a 40 footer would be challenging for a cruising couple without a snuffer, but when I see 30 footers with snuffers I can't help wondering if they'd enjoy the experience a lot more if they had the confidence to fly it free.
And if you are in a 40 footer with a snuffer, remember to take it down in good time because if the effluent does hit the spinny thing your snuffer will be of no use at all....

I think the furling cruising chutes have much more potential, though I haven't actually used one yet.

Are your comments referring to using a snuffer for a spinnaker - rather than a cruising chute?

 

[Talulah]

Snuffer for me as well.
As Flaming has said things can go wrong.
However, one of the reasons for a cruising chute over a spinnaker is that you can use it more often when short crewed.
The snuffer is ideal for short crewed. Not just for retrieving but also for deployment. Everything can be set up between just you and the autopilot.

 

[sailorman]

Snuffer for me as well.
As Flaming has said things can go wrong.
However, one of the reasons for a cruising chute over a spinnaker is that you can use it more often when short crewed.
The snuffer is ideal for short crewed. Not just for retrieving but also for deployment. Everything can be set up between just you and the autopilot.

It it dose go tits-up one can still trip the tack snap shackle as with a spi & haul it in under the main & drop the halliard

 

[Talulah]

It it dose go tits-up one can still trip the tack snap shackle as with a spi & haul it in under the main & drop the halliard

I have the tack adjustable from the cockpit. The line goes through a snatch block on the stem head fitting and is then routed back. So yes I can completely release the tack to haul it in.
I quite often slacken the tack line so I can bring the snuffer vertical down the mast instead of having to try and take the snuffer forward a bit.

 

[MoodySabre]

Two of flaming's points (I was waiting for his response - not all of us are experienced racers but diehard cruisers usually two up).

Firstly - you gybe the chute are the downhaul is on the wrong side. How many seconds does that take to remedy?

When there is wind in the sail I just release the tack which has a snapshackle that can be undone under load - the chute is then easily tamed.

 

[Daydream believer]

Are your comments referring to using a snuffer for a spinnaker - rather than a cruising chute?

Same thing applies to a cruising chute except for the pole
Flaming is absolutely spot on
I would like to add
Adds to weight for hoisting
GRP mouth loves to smash you on the head or just hit the steaming light
lowering using a long downhaul so it can be dropped in the cockpit is far easier
You have to go on the foredeck to hoist whereas without it you can hoist straight from the bag working from the cockpit
It ALWAYS tangles & i have regularly had it stuck 6 ft from the top
Lines are a D..d nuisance always being on the wrong side ( sods law)
Has to be operated on the foredeck which is a pain if single handing & caught in a sudden blow
My snuffer ( A Hyde) now lives in the garage & cruising chute hoisting has become fun again

 

[sailorman]

I have the tack adjustable from the cockpit. The line goes through a snatch block on the stem head fitting and is then routed back. So yes I can completely release the tack to haul it in.
I quite often slacken the tack line so I can bring the snuffer vertical down the mast instead of having to try and take the snuffer forward a bit.

I do the same so that the tack is adjustable for w/a

 

[Daydream believer]

Two of flaming's points (I was waiting for his response - not all of us are experienced racers but diehard cruisers usually two up).

Firstly - you gybe the chute are the downhaul is on the wrong side. How many seconds does that take to remedy?

When there is wind in the sail I just release the tack which has a snapshackle that can be undone under load - the chute is then easily tamed.

Getting the cords on the correct side is dead awkward & one often has to lean over the rail to get them if on wrong side of sail
If you let the tack go then where does the snuffer go-- down to leward with the sail
How do you deal with getting the first lump of sail out of the snuffer- Lean out & pull it by hand
If you have a fixed tack then you have to try & operate at the forestay

It is nothing to do with racing
sail handling is the same whether racing or not
one wants to do it smoothly & without fuss esp if like me you are S handed

 

[sailorman]

Same thing applies to a cruising chute except for the pole
Flaming is absolutely spot on
I would like to add
Adds to weight for hoisting
GRP mouth loves to smash you on the head or just hit the steaming light
lowering using a long downhaul so it can be dropped in the cockpit is far easier
You have to go on the foredeck to hoist whereas without it you can hoist straight from the bag working from the cockpit
It ALWAYS tangles & i have regularly had it stuck 6 ft from the top
Lines are a D..d nuisance always being on the wrong side ( sods law)
Has to be operated on the foredeck which is a pain if single handing & caught in a sudden blow
My snuffer ( A Hyde) now lives in the garage & cruising chute hoisting has become fun again

The upside is no chute to repack.
mine goes straight down the fore hatch, job done ( fingers X )

 

[BelleSerene]

I say for cruising, and short-handed, a snuffer's a blessing.

Flaming's points, clearly borne of experience and excellence, are more relevant to the racer. If cruising you can take a little more time to sit the bag on the other bow and re-tie a sheet if it's not on the right side to haul. And you can gybe it just easily round the front of the forestay. (If you want to bring it down on the other bow from where you hoisted it, you do need to throw the snuffer lines round the forestay to do it, but that's easy.)

Only one I would disagree with:

5. Ditto the drop, you can't snuff the thing whilst it's full in any sort of breeze, so you have to collapse it. If you're the one doing that, you then have to sprint up to the foredeck and start snuffing before it decided to wrap itself around something.

The truth is, on my 39-footer if I ease the sheet well, the snuffer will sock it up fairly easily - certainly a lot more stable than trying to manage all that sail area flogging its way around the foredeck and into the water.

 

[mainsail1]

Thank you so much for all the answers so far. Clearly there are strong views on both sides. In the end I am going to add up those for a snuffer and those against and take the majority view. Trouble is I now wonder if a cruising chute is the answer to my desire for ease of handling shorthanded, including getting it down when the wind perks up?

 

[DJE]

Well if you're counting add me to the anti-snuffer list.

Two up on a 29 footer we always launch the chute out of the bag and recover it under the boom or through the "letterbox" between the boom and the loose foot of the mainsail. With the tack line lead back to the coachroof you can recover the sail without anybody leaving the cockpit. Make sure you have some searoom to sail a very deep angle for the hoist and drop so that the chute is easy to blanket behind the main. Hoisting and dropping on a close reach are hard work.

 

[awol]

Had a snuffer - sold it on eBay. An invention of the devil solving nothing and quite capable of creating its own foul-ups. Single handed cruising chute or spinnaker handling on a 32' boat isn't difficult as long as you plan the moves and don't run out of sea room. I too am with Flaming on this.

 

[bbg]

Snuffers have their place. In my experience that place is in the bin.

That is a bit harsh - I have only used them a couple of times. Once was on a maxi (72 feet) during a delivery, so we only had six or seven crew aboard, instead of the normal 18-19. For a day or so we flew the small delivery kite (symmetric) with a snuffer, because we were shorthanded. It was such a hassle that we took it off and went back to normal. Much easier.

There is a technique to dousing an asymmetric kite, and it shouldn't be hard even when short-handed. The steps are:
- hoist / unroll the jib (if it isn't already up). This give extra sail area to blanket the kite.
- bear away to about 170 TWA - now the kite should really be blanketed.
- blow the tack line. This is the important bit. A lot of people have a shackle on the tack and try to spike that off. That puts you at the pointy end - just where you don't want to be. Much better to have a tack line that is very long (maybe 2x boat length? maybe a bit more?) and just open the clutch and let it run.
- as the sail unloads, gather the foot in the cockpit, under the main. Forget about "letter boxing" between the boom and main, it just adds friction.
- once the foot is under control, drop the halyard in a controlled manner, as you gather the sail into the cockpit and shove it below.

When dropping halyards or letting the tack line run, here is an idea - stream the line over the stern of the boat. Then you KNOW there are no knots in it, and it will run clear. If you are alone and you need to keep the halyard from just running, put a wrap around the winch to put some friction into the system. You can pull against that friction or take a wrap off, as needed.

I have posted this video a few times before, but some people might find it useful. At about 2:10 you will see me do a drop of a 75 sq m kite. It doesn't look it, but it was blowing 22-27 knots at the time. It took me a couple of minutes to set everything up to be ready, but you will see the drop itself from start to finish takes about 22 seconds.