Snuffers on cruising chutes - a good idea?

[Martin_J]

We always have fun... and safe fun... which like Flaming includes hoisting either the Symmetric or the Asymmetric at any opportunity... Whichever method works for you... I still feel it's safer and easier and quicker to hoist and drop without the Snuffers.. hence the reason for leaving them at home...

 

[Ravi]

No one in their right mind uses spinnakers without learning all the foibles and terrors of the sail first.

That implies that the dirty tricks that a spi can play on you are finite!

 

[KevinT1]

Interesting discussion - and my 2 pence worth, we're not that new to spinnakers ( having sailed many types of dinghies over the years + both son and daughter have just finished sailing 29 ers ) , so have tried with and without snuffers. Wife is not terribly keen on spinnakers - so she stays in the cockpit.

My preference is to use the snuffer on both our Symmetric and Asymmetric , for the the Symmetric it allows us to snuff the Spinnaker whilst gybing - and then walk the Kite around the forestay before unsnuffing - everything is calm and we don't dip pole or anything fancy as we don't have or want the complexity of multiple sheets / guys ..... or the excitement

With both Kites, then by letting go of the the Tack ( Assy ) / Guy ( Symmetrical ), the Kite drops behind the main and the snuffer comes down without any fuss or effort.

As for working on the foredeck - most of the work is actually done at the mast and my preference is to sit down when hoisting or dropping - I can brace myself and look up at what I'm doing

and yes - like Flaming and Martin_J, I really enjoy hoisting the Kites at any opportunity - our best run this year was 10 hours from St Peter Port to Roscoff on a square run with the Symmetrical up all the way !

 

[Daydream believer]

Maybe I am just ignorant but I would leave the tack alone; just release the sheet, let the sail stream (depowered and blanked) in front of the boat and recover it either via snuffer or manhandling. It works for me. Am I missing something?

Your comment has me wondering if you have ever tried it
If you steam the sail out the front the sheets then drop in the water ready to snag the rudder
To gather the sail you have to go forward of the forestay, reach out to grab a length of foot forward of the tack ( as it is steaming out the front)
you then have to bring this bit of sail back behind the forestay to allow you to gather it in.
this immediately causes a slight bag in the sail so it catches the wind
You have to bring this sail aft as it comes down 7 kneel on it on the deck in case it gets out of your hand ( esp if the bloke on the halliard falls asleep)
You then slip on the sail as folds of sail are really slippy & the whole lot goes in the drink
But you have never had this problem !!!! Interesting

 

[duncan99210]

Been reading this thread with mild amusement. We bought our chute without a sniffer, flew it a couple of times and found it to be a nearly unmanagable mass of fabric when recovering it. Bought a snuffer and fitted it and now fly the chute whenever the occasion presents itself. It makes launching and recovery simple to manage with two on board, no great masses of sail to stuff away below and turns what was a nightmare into a simple task.

I was taught the 'stuff bundles on nylon down a hole' technique by the Joint Service school many years ago. It worked fine with six young crew on a Halcyon but is less applicable to two middle aged folks on a forty foot yacht. I think that part of the art of using chutes and spinnakers lies in bringing them in before it creates a drama rather tha enjoying the drama whe you try to take it down a bit too late.....

 

[Ravi]

Your comment has me wondering if you have ever tried it
If you steam the sail out the front the sheets then drop in the water ready to snag the rudder
To gather the sail you have to go forward of the forestay, reach out to grab a length of foot forward of the tack ( as it is steaming out the front)
you then have to bring this bit of sail back behind the forestay to allow you to gather it in.
this immediately causes a slight bag in the sail so it catches the wind
You have to bring this sail aft as it comes down 7 kneel on it on the deck in case it gets out of your hand ( esp if the bloke on the halliard falls asleep)
You then slip on the sail as folds of sail are really slippy & the whole lot goes in the drink
But you have never had this problem !!!! Interesting

Like I say, it works for me. Maybe, I am just lucky. Admittedly, if I am not using a chute, I usually put my cigarette out, first, before strolling forward. Hopefully, my luck will hold in the future!

 

[BelleSerene]

We may have to agree to disagree... But my thoughts on the above.

I've sailed with snuffers a lot, and I've never been able to stand against the mast, the angle just ends up wrong and the damn thing won't move, - especially unsnuffing when the sail just seems to bunch up. I find that you frequently have to have a hold of the foot of the sail to get the snuffer to start.

If you're on your side with a flogging kite the very last place I want to be is the foredeck with snuffer lines in hand. Especially as with an inexperienced crewmate on the helm the next thing that's likely to happen once the boat pops up is it rolling straight into a crash gybe.

I have to admit to never having had a wrap with a snuffer, but that does sound like a good tip.

Once you've given up on the snuffer and dumped the thing down the hatch (hopefully without wrapping the snuffer lines around everything) how do you get it back into the snuffer below decks before the next hoist? Or are you committed to a "normal" hoist? I do recall having to stretch the sail out through 4 rooms of the house to load it into the snuffer many moons ago!

Have to say I don't have Flaming's problems either. Is it a masthead/ fractional-rig thing? (Ours is fractional.) Or is it that you (Flaming) are not using an oval-shaped snuffer mouth - they do help to separate the luff and leech of the chute?

Either way, I stand at the mast to snuff/ unsnuff, and I've never had the mouth of the sock jam on anything - padeyes, radar, anything. Nor do I have to lean over the side-deck to snuff or unsnuff. And that's with no main up either, so nothing to hide the chute downwind of.

If you slacken the sheet and just pull down on the snuffer line, the plastic snuffer mouth just gulps the sail in until it's totally under control. I don't even then shove it down a hatch (there's no point): I lower it onto the foredeck, zig-zagging it on the way. If the bag's on the correct side I'll lower it roughly onto the bag, gather the bag around the sail and slap the velcro shut over the top of it.

 

[Ravi]

Have to say I don't have Flaming's problems either.

Maybe, you're just lucky, too!

 

[flaming]

Have to say I don't have Flaming's problems either. Is it a masthead/ fractional-rig thing? (Ours is fractional.) Or is it that you (Flaming) are not using an oval-shaped snuffer mouth - they do help to separate the luff and leech of the chute?

Either way, I stand at the mast to snuff/ unsnuff, and I've never had the mouth of the sock jam on anything - padeyes, radar, anything. Nor do I have to lean over the side-deck to snuff or unsnuff. And that's with no main up either, so nothing to hide the chute downwind of.

If you slacken the sheet and just pull down on the snuffer line, the plastic snuffer mouth just gulps the sail in until it's totally under control. I don't even then shove it down a hatch (there's no point): I lower it onto the foredeck, zig-zagging it on the way. If the bag's on the correct side I'll lower it roughly onto the bag, gather the bag around the sail and slap the velcro shut over the top of it.

Fractional rig with 2 different snuffers, one round, one oval. Same issues with both.

To be fair it seems to be that the first unsnuff is the big issue. But if you then snuff it and unsnuff again without having dropped the sausage it'll go with no problems.

 

[doris]

Maybe, you're just lucky, too!

LUCK is simply Labour Under Correct Knowledge. As a well known golfer once said ' the more I practice the luckier I get'.

 

[basic]

If I had a crew I would be happy to fly both the spi and my big drifter without a snuffer. As my sailing is done single handed I have a snuffer on both and find I use them much more. Takes the stress out of flying them when the wind looks like it may freshen.

 

[2copplane]

One benefit for a snuffer is the sail is nice and tidy to stow away. I've just bought a spinnaker without snuffer and douse by lowering down the cockpit hatch, and it then fills the saloon, interrupting my wife and daughters lounging. Takes another 30 minutes to carefully bag it adding wool ties etc... I could ask the ladies to pack it away...maybe not.

For the cruising chute, 15.4m luff, I'm looking to fit a top down furler to replace the snuffer. The snuffer is okay and for me makes the sale more user friendly, but Tested a mates spin furler on my boat and it was great. We set it up in the marina, sailed close hauled for a bit, turned down wind and unfurled, then a couple of minutes later wound it back in as the wind built. Did this couple of times without breaking sweat, and easily done single handed, and packs away very small.

I'll probably just use the spinnaker for entertainment with mates onboard.

 

[DJE]

Those of you that operate the snuffer from the mast, do you have the halyard at the mast too? Our halyards are all lead back, and on the few occasions that I tried the snuffer I found the period when it was hoisted and not yet unsnuffed, or snuffed and not yet lowered to be potentially hazardous. I had to take my eyes off it to move between the cockpit and foredeck and while I was doing that the sausage would do its best to wrap itself round the forestay. I suppose I could have stayed up forward and opened the forehatch to drop it in there but at the time that was home to two small kids and great heaps of toys so I preferred to recover the sail into the main hatch.

Then one spring when setting up for the first hoist of the season I found a neatly folded sail in the bag with a neatly folded snuffer on top of it! So I threw the snuffer down below and launched the chute from the bag. Been doing it that way ever since.

 

[doris]

Those of you that operate the snuffer from the mast, do you have the halyard at the mast too? Our halyards are all lead back, and on the few occasions that I tried the snuffer I found the period when it was hoisted and not yet unsnuffed, or snuffed and not yet lowered to be potentially hazardous. I had to take my eyes off it to move between the cockpit and foredeck and while I was doing that the sausage would do its best to wrap itself round the forestay. I suppose I could have stayed up forward and opened the forehatch to drop it in there but at the time that was home to two small kids and great heaps of toys so I preferred to recover the sail into the main hatch.
.

I have all lines led aft. Spin halyards would be better at mast but they are not and its not a problem. If solo just set everything up, go back to the cockpit and hoist. As I hoist I can pull a tad on the sheet to keep the sausage behind the jib. Then back to mast, unsnuff, back to cockpit, pull on sheet and tack line, furl jib then trim and off we go. When dropping just take the halyard round the coach roof winch then forward to forehatch, sit there and stuff it down. If wind has gone forward big time I will pull it all down the main hatch.

 

[geem]

Those of you that operate the snuffer from the mast, do you have the halyard at the mast too? Our halyards are all lead back, and on the few occasions that I tried the snuffer I found the period when it was hoisted and not yet unsnuffed, or snuffed and not yet lowered to be potentially hazardous. I had to take my eyes off it to move between the cockpit and foredeck and while I was doing that the sausage would do its best to wrap itself round the forestay. I suppose I could have stayed up forward and opened the forehatch to drop it in there but at the time that was home to two small kids and great heaps of toys so I preferred to recover the sail into the main hatch.

Then one spring when setting up for the first hoist of the season I found a neatly folded sail in the bag with a neatly folded snuffer on top of it! So I threw the snuffer down below and launched the chute from the bag. Been doing it that way ever since.

We do the lot from the mast. The wife rigs it but I help to get the pole rigged (it stores on a track on the mast). I hoist the spinnaker/snuffer at the mast then head back to the cockpit. She then hoists the snuffer and i trim from the cockpit. It is all very easy to do from our deck as the deck is flat. We have nothing led back to the cockpit and wouldnt want it any other way.

 

[BelleSerene]

Those of you that operate the snuffer from the mast, do you have the halyard at the mast too? Our halyards are all lead back, and on the few occasions that I tried the snuffer I found the period when it was hoisted and not yet unsnuffed, or snuffed and not yet lowered to be potentially hazardous. I had to take my eyes off it to move between the cockpit and foredeck and while I was doing that the sausage would do its best to wrap itself round the forestay. I suppose I could have stayed up forward and opened the forehatch to drop it in there but at the time that was home to two small kids and great heaps of toys so I preferred to recover the sail into the main hatch.

For us, no. Halyard is led back to a clutch in the cockpit beside a coachroof winch. If I want to hoist from the mast, I just feed the halyard half a turn round the winch and back to the mast, and haul it from there to hoist the asymmetric. When I'm single-handed, that's how I do it.

Either way, two simple bits of prep make it safe and reliable. Loosely tighten the leeward asymmetric sheet on the leeward winch, so the sausage never gets near the forestay. And if you're leaving the thing hoisted but unfurled for any time, tie the furling line down to the deck - just a clove hitch will do. Prevents the mouth from riding upwards and letting wind catch the sail.