Snapshot of Market.

[oldgit]

Which module was that, didn't know they made a twin flybridge with diesels up there...

Flybridges, Fairline Sedan 36, Princess 35 , Princess 415 etc, couple of Turbo 36 with their " Hobbit " flybridges plus recently a couple of Brooms , Monarch and Broom 38 plus a baby Grand Banks style clone only being sold because its unable to keep up on club cruises.Skipper looking for a decent Princess 30DS . Diesel on shafts only of course.

 

[Montemar]

Who in this world forks out loads of cash for regular professional servicing but doesn’t keep records
I leave the conclusion to you

Could it be that people are reluctant to hand over invoices etc for work done that show their name and address?
Could this be perceived as a security risk? However you would want to keep proof of work done.

 

[Whopper]

Some comments on service history. I guess a lot of people do basic oil and filter changes themselves on older boats and wouldn’t necessarily have a massive history? Would lack of paper trail really put people off older boats?

 

[jon and michie]

Some comments on service history. I guess a lot of people do basic oil and filter changes themselves on older boats and wouldn’t necessarily have a massive history? Would lack of paper trail really put people off older boats?

To be fair here - I did my own servicing but kept a log and the Receipts of the Oil and filters etc etc in a folder with time reminders of say valve clearances to be checked, supercharger oil to be changed out etc - so there was always a paper trail.

 

[oldgit]

There is a dividing line somewhere when calling on your usually not very local at all VP servicing outfit to undertake simple maintainance which does not make economic sense considering boat value.
Above a given price bracket would much prefer to see a bunch of eyewatering "Thank you for your custom" invoices on a letterhead from authorised Volvo Penta sevice centre, a chance that the owner has actually had those PIA jobs done such as engine anodes ?
10 engine anodes on my Yanmars and yes all have been changed and their replacementts are already on shelf in the garage.
Cannot for the life of me recall exactly where tho !

 

[Neil1300r]

We've been looking for a sports cruiser in the 10-12m range for 5 months. In our price range they are all 20+ year old boats, but we have been surprised by the state of most of them. The majority give the impression that the owners have fallen out of love with them, and abandoned them by giving them to a broker, to moor and hopefully sell them. Hope being the operative word as they look and in some cases smell of abandonment. The majority of brokers are hilarious. They make little effort to sell them and are obviously not advising their clients of remedial work they should do to make the boat presentable and sellable. On one the cabin headlinings were coming away. The brokers comment was, its an easy DIY fix. Never having done it, we were left wondering if it was easy why had the owner not done it to make it sellable. There was one with sunpads on the foredeck. Nice idea to show the boat in the summer, but they've been there for at least 6 months in winter weather. Another where the broker couldn't get the engine hatch open and admitted it was difficult to open when they photographed the boat. At least it made the viewing quick
Don't get me started with the broker where the boat failed the survey on multiple points, but it took multiple calls, messages, emails to get our deposit back.
Prices are hilarious, all priced similar regardless of condition. With a couple, where I can only assume the owners are delusional 20-25% higher priced than the best conditioned one we viewed. Seeing a few come down in price by 5-10%, but still overpriced in my opinion

 

[oldgit]

Finding the ideal boat, harder and more stressful than finding that young attractive and rich life partner with very bad eyesight.
A Cynics Tale of Woe.
Of the 10 boats you eventually look at 5 will be neglected heaps the owner long ago refused to spend a single farthing more , it will be optimistically priced in a hilarious attempt to recover previous money spent, eventually the desperate broker will suggest a new interior refurb might just unload the thing ............. more money down the creek. You cannot polish a **** etc.
The further you travel and the more optimistic you are, the more disappointing the heap will be.
Tip. Get a nights sleep and few beers down you at a local Travelodge to deaden the long drive home and do try not to get parking ticket in the car park, it does not help. Hartlepool and some marina in North Wales.
The next 5 boats will be sort of OK and simply over priced. The Thames Valley.
The next boat you look at looks clean and tidy as you wander down the pontoon Oooo .....your hopes rise and it will stretch your " budget" 50% considerably but is nice and will do the job. Shame some git put a deposit on it yesterday and nobody bothered to tell you. Penton Hook.
You give up and sulk. God you even think about a about buying one of those awfull mobile front rooms that clog up our highways.

Reason prevails and you just have one more idle glance at the interweb.
Its local (ish) and the price is not silly, so you bribe the wife with the promise of decent lunch (not a roadside greasy spoon) and glass of Pino and climb in the car yet again.
Over time you will develop a sixth sense about what awaits as you, with your beloved trudging behind , leave the brokers office with the keys but without the broker who has remained in his comfy warm office.
Time for a bloddy good rummage in all the nooks and crannies. They are not brim full of rainwater old rope/ covers assorted junk. Sealine at Harleyford.

This time you are the first to look, its already yours before you clamber aboard , now just wondering how much you will have to offer to get it without the broker telling you to get off his sales pontoon. ?
Reluctantly you buy the other half a budget meal in a " chain "with single glass of something alleged to be wine.
You are now in a hurry to get home and magic some money out of thin air, wondering if you can persaude your daughter to raid the grandkids ISAs

Photos invariably tell fibs and any suggestion that the boat has been well maintained by the previous owner needs to be taken with personal ownership of medium sized salt mine.

 

[Bouba]

Could it be that people are reluctant to hand over invoices etc for work done that show their name and address?
Could this be perceived as a security risk? However you would want to keep proof of work done.

I often think about that with cars…we keep reams of paper work with all sorts of personal data..and then hand them to the new owner…this stuff can follow the car it’s whole life until it’s shipped to (say) West Africa to start its life again

 

[Neil1300r]

I often think about that with cars…we keep reams of paper work with all sorts of personal data..and then hand them to the new owner…this stuff can follow the car it’s whole life until it’s shipped to (say) West Africa to start its life again

Car dealers are now destroying these records claiming its against GDPR regulations. Just an excuse to not maintain records more like. Not just low end manufacturer dealerships, have heard it happens at Aston Martin dealerships.

 

[jon and michie]

Car dealers are now destroying these records claiming its against GDPR regulations. Just an excuse to not maintain records more like. Not just low end manufacturer dealerships, have heard it happens at Aston Martin dealerships.

I often think about that with cars…we keep reams of paper work with all sorts of personal data..and then hand them to the new owner…this stuff can follow the car it’s whole life until it’s shipped to (say) West Africa to start its life again

Most Modern cars have the service history Digitally recorded in the cars system - but this can have its draw backs.

@Bouba - I have been told I have won the Nigerian Lottery and just need to give my bank details over lol

 

[Bouba]

Most Modern cars have the service history Digitally recorded in the cars system - but this can have its draw backs.

@Bouba - I have been told I have won the Nigerian Lottery and just need to give my bank details over lol

I suspect that they already have them

 

[oldgit]

@Bouba - I have been told I have won the Nigerian Lottery and just need to give my bank details over lol

And Rwanda has lot of our money apparently...............

 

[DavidJ]

There is a dividing line somewhere when calling on your usually not very local at all VP servicing outfit to undertake simple maintainance which does not make economic sense considering boat value.
Above a given price bracket would much prefer to see a bunch of eyewatering "Thank you for your custom" invoices on a letterhead from authorised Volvo Penta sevice centre, a chance that the owner has actually had those PIA jobs done such as engine anodes ?
10 engine anodes on my Yanmars and yes all have been changed and their replacementts are already on shelf in the garage.
Cannot for the life of me recall exactly where tho !

It depends on whether the owner is a paperwork nerd (like me)
This is 20 years worth

 

[jon and michie]

That's How I had mine - I used the Volvo Service check sheets for each year and receipts for that corresponding year went in the same pouch. - Yes might be nerdy but to a prospective buyer looks good

 

[DavidJ]

That's How I had mine - I used the Volvo Service check sheets for each year and receipts for that corresponding year went in the same pouch. - Yes might be nerdy but to a prospective buyer looks good

Agree
I recently sold my boat and it went in 3 weeks. I copied all the original paperwork (above) and I think it contributed significantly to a quick sale
……and of course I kept the original paperwork for no other reason because that’s what paperwork nerds do!

 

[jon and michie]

Agree
I recently sold my boat and it went in 3 weeks. I copied all the original paperwork (above) and I think it contributed significantly to a quick sale
……and of course I kept the original paperwork for no other reason because that’s what paperwork nerds do!

Thing is if the buyer of the boat for sale thinks it's half decent and see that even the paperwork is in order then the chances of an offer increase.

 

[stelican]

I first saw it for sale last year and it was then I picked up on the trivial things - yes trivial but it's these things that get you thinking has the boat been looked after.
I enquired again a month ago ( thinking well maybe it is just a couple of cosmetic things that can be put right)
About the service history to be told that the owner is going to speak to his marine engineer to get Receipts? ??
It was at this point that my initial suspicions where confirmed

Like I said I maybe totally wrong but not willing to gamble my money away.


Jon

So what was your impression of the engine bay and what is your valuation?

 

[jon and michie]

So what was your impression of the engine bay and what is your valuation?

Believe it or not I looked further today at the 360 pics that weren't there originally and found that the one of the engines had OEM filters on.
That said looking at the interior woodwork shows mass white staining on the galley table and on the walls which after I was advised would need either stripping back and re lacquering and polish etc along with the bubbles in the walls which is a common fault on these would bring the price right down to be even worth considering.
There's offers and there is insulting offers which I'm not prepared to do.

Also I have been advised that for the asking price it would have to be in a totally mint condition which this is not.
I am sure someone will be up for buying it at some point.
But it's not for me.
Was I tempted - Yes
But as I have said earlier I can wait for a good one to come along.

Jon

 

[oldgit]

Believe it or not I looked further today at the 360 pics that weren't there originally and found that the one of the engines had OEM filters on.
That said looking at the interior woodwork shows mass white staining on the galley table and on the walls which after I was advised would need either stripping back and re lacquering and polish etc along with the bubbles in the walls which is a common fault on these would bring the price right down to be even worth considering.
There's offers and there is insulting offers which I'm not prepared to do.

Also I have been advised that for the asking price it would have to be in a totally mint condition which this is not.
I am sure someone will be up for buying it at some point.
But it's not for me.
Was I tempted - Yes
But as I have said earlier I can wait for a good one to come along.

Jon

Went to see a Princess 420 in Hartlepool with exactly the same thing waiting at the end of the journey.
Broker did ask if would be prepared to make offer
Any offer on the asking price would have deducted the a,The Covid Premium, b, the cost of getting the boat back to some sort of presentable condition , c, the fact the previous owner had owned the boat for less than 12 months( either been stitched up big time or had bought it cheap to make profit) and d, very little previous regards servicing history.
Pre Covid 100K, Mid Covid £155 K.
Also boat was at the very limits of the known boating world, expensive to get back to civilisation either by truck or under its own keel.
Would have made an insulting offer but could not be bothered, told him to ring me if it did achieve the impressive asking price.
The broker was not happy at all, suspected that we would not be in conversation again.
A cardinal rule of boats, for those without money to burn, Buy Right to Sell Right.
Pay too much for a boat and it will come round to bite you when you sell............. and patience is virtue ?
Aware of about a dozen plus boats up for sale locally, only one possibly would meet my most boat for least money critera and its not the newest and not the most expensive.

 

[jon and michie]

@stelican in terms of valuations - here is my opinion.

When brand new these boats went for £285k (as always specs depending)

Pre covid prices you could get a really good one for between £130 to £140k

So in today's terms bearing in mind covid has been and gone but still a little modest and fair for the price increase due to covid.

In really good condition £140-£150k
(ie nothing needed attention)

Good condition £125-£135k

Below average to average is dependant on condition / service history and so on - which if you are prepared to take it on bear in mind how much is needed to bring it up to good condition to be then worth the market value

Fairline mallorca sold a white hulled T43 with very low hrs and from what I remember was priced at £150k - sold within 2 weeks.


Again this is only my opinion.