Small boat heavy weather

[LittleSister]

. . . But your examples are not in the size range the OP was discussing so are not entirely relevant. . . .

I'm not sure the size range the OP was discussing is entirely relevant. In typical new poster fashion, he hasn't been back since the day he started this thread!

Still, it keeps the regular posters off the streets and out of trouble.

 

[Laminar Flow]

In general it's not where the wind is coming from but where you are going relative to it that matters.

I beg to differ. As has already been determined, it is not the wind force that is the most critical safety issue for a small boat, but the sea state.

Caer Urfa sailed on the UK East Coast. In a South-Westerly, the bulk of the UK mainland would greatly reduce any possible fetch and you would be sailing in a relatively benign offshore breeze, no matter if it's a F7.
Whereas, in a North-Easter and on the same coast, you would not only have to contend with the effects of several hundred miles of open water fetch, but also the compounded influence, close inshore, of reflected seas on a lee shore.

In those latter conditions, I certainly think it would matter, where you might be heading, relative to the Wind.

In regards to the recommendation of a CW 23 for the OP's requirement? This boat has a SA/D of under 8, on a displacement of 4.5 t, which is about the equivalent weight of a more modern, well-loaded 30'er. On the upside, you could just about carry the proposed 20 footer in davits and she does come with a factory installed, short heavy weather rig for those with aspirations to becoming a storm chaser.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I beg to differ. As has already been determined, it is not the wind force that is the most critical safety issue for a small boat, but the sea state.

Caer Urfa sailed on the UK East Coast. In a South-Westerly, the bulk of the UK mainland would greatly reduce any possible fetch and you would be sailing in a relatively benign offshore breeze, no matter if it's a F7.
Whereas, in a North-Easter and on the same coast, you would not only have to contend with the effects of several hundred miles of open water fetch, but also the compounded influence, close inshore, of reflected seas on a lee shore.

In those latter conditions, I certainly think it would matter, where you might be heading, relative to the Wind.

In regards to the recommendation of a CW 23 for the OP's requirement? This boat has a SA/D of under 8, on a displacement of 4.5 t, which is about the equivalent weight of a more modern, well-loaded 30'er. On the upside, you could just about carry the proposed 20 footer in davits and she does come with a factory installed, short heavy weather rig for those with aspirations to becoming a storm chaser.

You missed the opening two words and I maintain it's correct. Whilst the OP and Care Urfa are East coast sailors and your post holds true for that the fact remains when sailing OFFSHORE one would be more concerned with the direction of the wind relative to the boats heading and even in relatively benign sea states it is still a major factor at <wind speeds in the F7 area. Particularly for a small boat.

 

[arc1]

I agree the Contessa 26 is long keeled but they have all the drawbacks I’ve mentioned and go to windward like a submarine. (I nearly bought one once!)

Have to point out that at 60m+ submarines go to windward a lot better than any of the boats mentioned here, and tend to be completely dry. Although admittedly maybe not exactly what the OP was looking for in a vessel!

 

[dunedin]

Have to point out that at 60m+ submarines go to windward a lot better than any of the boats mentioned here, and tend to be completely dry. Although admittedly maybe not exactly what the OP was looking for in a vessel!

Seems relevant - many have advised that Contessa's going to windward are very similar to submarines

 

[STATUE]

Well done my friend. A small boat, single-handed is where real sailors are made. There are plenty of Yachtmasters around who have never been out there on their own .

 

[Refueler]

Years ago - people wouldn't bat an eye about a small boat in mod - heavy weather - now people think you are mad to do it ... Times change !!

Starter boats were 15 - 17ft then ... now its 30ft +

I sailed my Alacrity 19 in some pretty awful weather 7 - 8, not by choice - but caught out ... she took it much better than me !! My Snapdragon 23 was also fine ... and my Sunrider 25 ..

TBH - many of those older small boats - I would consider stronger built and more able to survive the pounding .... I've seen some modern boats after caught in heavy weather ... mmmmmm

 

[geem]

A friend is setting off this week from Antigua heading into the Pacific. Single handing a Contessa 32. Well set up boat. A good choice for a single handed adventure

 

[graham]

Wind strength is only part of the equation. A force 7 going the same way as a 3 knot tidal flow will be quite manageable but a force 6 going against a 3 knot tide will produce large breaking waves.

 

[Refueler]

Wind strength is only part of the equation. A force 7 going the same way as a 3 knot tidal flow will be quite manageable but a force 6 going against a 3 knot tide will produce large breaking waves.

You don't need that much wind or stream to create troughs / waves that become dangerous... all it needs is enough wind and stream opposing and then get funnelled as in various entrances to harbours ...

Another example is approaching my local harbour ... whoever designed the breakwaters should be shot at dawn ! Usual wind is from SW ... so it hits our coast at an angle ... that's fine - but the breakwater to south is not long enough out to sea to prevent the seas banging onto the north breakwater - causing a reflected wave pattern... which then hits the incoming pattern ...
There is an area on approach that even in good weather can have you pitching and rolling like a b******d .....

 

[dunedin]

A friend is setting off this week from Antigua heading into the Pacific. Single handing a Contessa 32. Well set up boat. A good choice for a single handed adventure

But a 32 footer is a huge thread drift and entirely differnt proposition from the “17-22 foot” small boats that this thread started with

 

[geem]

But a 32 footer is a huge thread drift and entirely differnt proposition from the “17-22 foot” small boats that this thread started with

It is. Its what is know as a sensible choice

 

[MisterBaxter]

You don't need that much wind or stream to create troughs / waves that become dangerous... all it needs is enough wind and stream opposing and then get funnelled as in various entrances to harbours ...

This is really true, and even just relatively shallow water can cause problems. I once sailed across Bridgewater Bay, from Weston to Minehead, in a Freedom 21 with what turned into a force 5-6 on the nose and 2-3 knots of falling tide going my way. It was chaos, incredibly short, steep seas, it felt like 1.5 to 2m waves a boat length apart although I'm sure it was less dramatic than that really. But the boat stuck her nose in about every third wave so that solid water rolled down the side decks and even over the cabin.

 

[littledancersadhu]

My trailer sailer a sailfish is 26 foot.

Hell of a tough little boat, although i have been out in 6 to 8 meter swells blowing 40 knots, even with my thousands of hours at sea, i am not happy, and know the boat is only as strong as the weakest fitting.

Sunny day, flat water force 2 to 3 champagne sailing is where it is for me.

Rough weather in a small sailboat is just very mentally and physically tiring for me.

I windsurf, so if it is blowing a force 7, ill bust out my windsurf kit!!

 

[Wansworth]

Now if you had a smack Admiral Beaufort offers clear instructions

 

[westernman]

My trailer sailer a sailfish is 26 foot.

Hell of a tough little boat, although i have been out in 6 to 8 meter swells blowing 40 knots, even with my thousands of hours at sea, i am not happy, and know the boat is only as strong as the weakest fitting.

Sunny day, flat water force 2 to 3 champagne sailing is where it is for me.

Rough weather in a small sailboat is just very mentally and physically tiring for me.

I windsurf, so if it is blowing a force 7, ill bust out my windsurf kit!!

I bet you are not quite as fast as this guy:-

 

[littledancersadhu]

Hey Westernman! If i was there, i am sure they would let me use the kit for a few runs!

Living in Jersey, one day, i will windsurf to guernsey, or guernsey to Jersey!

Windsurfing is easier than ever to learn now with the new kit.

You dont have to start on a 3 and a half meter tuberware Vinta 330!!

Bic Techno with retractable daggerboard , and a 5 meter sail, and a couple of weeks tuition at Bray Lake! Monkey island lane.

 

[Refueler]

This is really true, and even just relatively shallow water can cause problems. I once sailed across Bridgewater Bay, from Weston to Minehead, in a Freedom 21 with what turned into a force 5-6 on the nose and 2-3 knots of falling tide going my way. It was chaos, incredibly short, steep seas, it felt like 1.5 to 2m waves a boat length apart although I'm sure it was less dramatic than that really. But the boat stuck her nose in about every third wave so that solid water rolled down the side decks and even over the cabin.

If anyone thinks ships are immune ... think again ...

Many times on north - south bound tracks to / from western approaches ... Cape ....

Getting caught in Atlantic rollers ... (swell that basically generates on US coast and then travels across) ... no matter how big a ship - you roll like a b*****d ... and it goes on for day after day ....
I've been on 300,000 tonners that dip lee rail in such rolls ....

 

[AntarcticPilot]

If anyone thinks ships are immune ... think again ...

Many times on north - south bound tracks to / from western approaches ... Cape ....

Getting caught in Atlantic rollers ... (swell that basically generates on US coast and then travels across) ... no matter how big a ship - you roll like a b*****d ... and it goes on for day after day ....
I've been on 300,000 tonners that dip lee rail in such rolls ....

And isn't parametric rolling (or something like that) a thing too, where the wave pattern and the ship's form combine so the rolling increases up a dangerous or fatal extent? I think I recall it being a factor in the loss of ships off the shallow North Sea coasts of Belgium and Holland.

 

[Refueler]

And isn't parametric rolling (or something like that) a thing too, where the wave pattern and the ship's form combine so the rolling increases up a dangerous or fatal extent? I think I recall it being a factor in the loss of ships off the shallow North Sea coasts of Belgium and Holland.

Its extremely rare - but once you detect rolling starting to increase you alter course ... and that can be frightening as the recc'd is to turn towards the swell .. not away from it ...

Its one of the possibles put forward for a number ships who have floundered of the Cape - its not unknown to have some huge surge waves there ...