single/short handed cruising

[Tranona]

I am old school where the foresail should be cut to work at it's size and not roller rigged, but on a proper forestay and cut to it's size. I have tried roller foresail reefing and find that once you get more than a few turns on the roller reefing the shape gets ridiculously bad and is more drag than drive. Whilst I guess I would prefer not to head up front in a serious blow, there is a lot to be said for a properly cut and appropriately sized foresail, that allows proper sailing.

That really is not an issue with a fractionally rigged boat with a smaller, less overlapping sail. Recognise if you are thinking of an old IOR type masthead rig with a huge genoa that regularly needs deep reefing, although again many of boats with that original rig go better in cruising with a smaller genoa of say 120% rather than the original 140 or 150.

 

[Stemar]

Between the Fulmar and the Contessa, the Fulmar would be my choice to stay aboard for a week or two. If your crew is a lady, I reckon she'd appreciate having a proper head, too.

 

[doug748]

It's been too long since I last sailed. So am perusing the market for a new (older) boat for hopefully extended cruising. Some of this will be with a crew of 2 (relatively inexperienced second crew member) and some will certainly be singlehanded. So the current thinking is a relatively small yacht of maybe 30-35 feet that can be managed alone. As an ex racer I have never been impressed by the slow heavy bungalows with phenomenal interior space and all the mod cons, but that are mostly moored up or motoring. As I am no longer working I have few time constraints so passages can take as long as required to allow for weather with no need to motor. I do appreciate sailing characteristics and want to be able to make headway upwind even if it isn't the most comfortable way to sail. I do have financial constraints (don't we all !) so current budget is in the 20-30K (GBP) for purchase with around 15-20K as an initial refurbishment fund and first years costs as required.
Current favourites for boats are Contessa 32, 34 (or 35 but expensive), Sigma 33, Sadler 32 (or 34 but expensive) and the occasional late 70's to 80's IOR designs which are what I learned to sail and race in. On the whole they aren't your traditional cruising type but I think they will suit my idea of sailing better and are adaptable to cruising for a maximum crew of 2-3.
Right now I am considering a Contessa 32 and a Westerly Fulmar but have a friend in Finland who tells me to check out either a H323 or H35 as popular over there. Looking at the H35 it looks kind of interesting in an old school way. A search on here (and elsewhere) doesn't bring up much about them but my friend has sailed on one and assures me they are a fine sail.
So any thoughts on Contessa 32 v Fulma v H35, or indeed other options above and anything else I should consider ?


and yes I know that threads similar to this pop up all the time from fantasists and dreamers as well as just people with vague speculations. I also know that my expectations and thoughts are completely different frommany other peoples so any advice is quite possibly irrelevent.

This looks a handy Contessa 35 with all the hallmarks of not being hard raced and a particularly clean interior, I think the upholstery is original. I would be tempted:

Contessa 35

Masthead rig but personally I don't think that is a great issue, though I would not want to handle it with hanked on sails. Tiller steered most Contessas in this range which I do, very much, prefer. They are optimised for racing with a big crew but the mighty Viking on YouTube has shown that this is not insurmountable.

The 33 would give you the same sort of facilities in a much lighter package and with less draught. Easier to handle and berth cheaper all round and pretty universally held in regard. Not many around though.
All the Contessa options are sharp performers which would appeal over many boats mentioned.

I think the Fulmar is a good shout as well, there is a lot to be said for being able to choose from a wide range.
I have seldom heard of anyone who might buy a Contessa 32. Their particular blend of advantages and drawbacks generally means that people are looking for one and nothing else will do, or are not interested.

.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

This looks a handy Contessa 35 with all the hallmarks of not being hard raced and a particularly clean interior, I think the upholstery is original. I would be tempted:

Contessa 35

Masthead rig but personally I don't think that is a great issue, though I would not want to handle it with hanked on sails. Tiller steered most Contessas in this range which I do, very much, prefer. They are optimised for racing with a big crew but the mighty Viking on YouTube has shown that this is not insurmountable.

The 33 would give you the same sort of facilities in a much lighter package and with less draught. Easier to handle and berth cheaper all round and pretty universally held in regard. Not many around though.
All the Contessa options are sharp performers which would appeal over many boats mentioned.

I think the Fulmar is a good shout as well, there is a lot to be said for being able to choose from a wide range.
I have seldom heard of anyone who might buy a Contessa 32. Their particular blend of advantages and drawbacks generally means that people are looking for one and nothing else will do, or are not interested.

.

Very much your last para. They are an individual taste, like an old British sports car. Neitherfast nor comfortable, but nonetheless stylish seaworthy, and pleasantly retro. Buy it for any other reason and disappointment may await.

 

[doug748]

Very much your last para. They are an individual taste, like an old British sports car. Neitherfast nor comfortable, but nonetheless stylish seaworthy, and pleasantly retro. Buy it for any other reason and disappointment may await.

Not very accurate but I can see your hearts in the right place

.

 

[Concerto]

I can certainly recommend a Fulmar. I sail singlehanded and in 2022 I sailed round Britain via the top of Shetland. Have a look at my About Me page to see lots of links to videos, PowerPoint presentations and many forum links to my round Britain trip. If you want any specific information on the Fulmar, then just ask.

This photo shows how small a Contessa 32 is beside Concerto, my Fulmar.

 

[Halo]

I saw Concerto’s Fulmar on the way round and it seemed ideal to me.
Don’t knock a bit of room and comfort on a long trip.
Being able to manoeuvre easily in tight spaces and not too high a freeboard for getting off when parking are also relevant factors.
The most likely issue on the way round single handed is catching a lobster pot buoy. I have a high cut foresail for this reason and it helps me see forward when beating.

 

[srm]

Perhaps you should consider a cutter rigged boat. Two foresails of proper size, a nice balanced rig and if it gets blowy just use the staysail. I am surprised that they are not more popular.

My last two boats were cutter rigged. The foresails had high clews and both kept a good shape when part rolled in a blow as the sail is evenly distributed on the roller. Much better than the common genoa shape with most of the area wrapped around the bottom. Also, the headsails were only around 100% so tacking was not a great problem, though much depends on the distance between forestays. On one boat the staysail was self tacking, so only headsail sheets to work. I frequently sailed single handed, but was rarely in a short tacking situation for more than an hour or so. That said, the second, bigger, boat came with dirty fuel tanks so we got used to clogged filters and entering harbour/marina/anchorage under sail at the end of lively passages. (eventually I bit the bullet and opened up the tank to physically clean it). Of course with a cutter if short tacking you can use just the headsail, or in fresh conditions just the staysail with reefed main.
It's a versatile rig worth serious consideration for a short handed cruising boat.

 

[steveeasy]

My tuppence worth.

Steveeasy

 

[madtam]

Shiny!
But I can't be sure what she is, other than rather pretty

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Shiny!
But I can't be sure what she is, other than rather pretty

Nic 32 at a guess.

 

[awol]

Nic 32 at a guess.

Philistines! It is, of course, the icon of sailing perfection - a Contessa 32!

 

[LeonF]

How do you do a tack with the genny, when single handed & have to work it round the inner stay? I would have thought such a rig would be the last choice for beating up a river, or between 2 lots of shallow banks, such as one gets in the Thames estuary.

I have a Vic 800 cutter rigged with a self tacking staysail, and even short tacking up the Medway it's never a problem single handed. I furl the jib , centre the mainsheet and tack away. No sheets to tend to. Even with full rig the jib usually clears the inner forestay.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have a Vic 800 cutter rigged and even short tacking up the Medway it's never a problem single handed. I furl the jib , centre the mainsheet and tack away. No sheets to tend to. Even with full rig the jib usually clears the inner forestay.

So are you saying that you do not use the jib?

 

[LeonF]

So are you saying that you do not use the jib?

Correct. The only time not using the jib can be an issue is with strong headwinds as the boat can get caught in irons as I'm unable to back the staysail. With a crew it's easy to get someone forward to hold it back. In time I learned to sail through the tacks with staysail alone, but you need to anticipate getting stuck and allow for an escape. In light winds never a problem.

 

[dunedin]

I have a Vic 800 cutter rigged with a self tacking staysail, and even short tacking up the Medway it's never a problem single handed. I furl the jib , centre the mainsheet and tack away. No sheets to tend to. Even with full rig the jib usually clears the inner forestay.

But that is a heck of a lot of hassle compared to a standard sloop rig, particularly a fractional rigged one with a moderate overlap jib.
Like ketch rigs, I think traditional cutter rigs have been overtaken by modern technology and largely made redundant.
Duck for cover

 

[srm]

Like ketch rigs, I think traditional cutter rigs have been overtaken by modern technology and largely made redundant.

In which case why don't all modern boats have a rotating mast wing sail? They are so much more efficient than sloop rigs, ancient or modern.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

There are very sound reasons for a cutter rig if you have any ambition that extends past coastal or short cross channel voyages. Short tacking up a contested river is not what such boats were designed for or expected to do and as has been said or implied there are different boats that can do that much better but for short handed / single handed sailing offshore in strong winds in a small boat a cutter rig / staysail reefed main would be invaluable and going to windward in such conditions unless absolutely necessary is not what would be a reasonable thinking sailors first course of action.

 

[srm]

How do you do a tack with the genny, when single handed & have to work it round the inner stay? I would have thought such a rig would be the last choice for beating up a river, or between 2 lots of shallow banks, such as one gets in the Thames estuary.

If tacking up narrow muddy creeks is your thing, then obviously, you will want and hopefully have a hull form and rig that facilitates such activities. When boats were individually built to order, after detailed discussion with the client, there was a wide variety of hull shapes and rigs around the UK coast, each developed to suit local conditions and needs. It is only with the advent of GRP and factory production that the "one design of boat/rig must suit all" and "modern designs are best" mindset has developed.

Edit: A cutter rig rarely has a genny as a working sail, the headsail is usually cut with a high clew and around 100%. This sail works in conjunction with the staysail. Try sailing on one someday and you will possibly understand that they are different to your boat.

My choice of boat, an older design, longish keeled yacht with a well stayed cutter rig, reflects my choice of sailing and would, as you point out, be unsuitable for single handed ditch crawling. Though if needs came to shove could do so. Offshore and further out on longish passages it has a sea kindly, directionally stable, hull form with load carrying capability and a versatile rig. Also, it has no pretensions as a marina hopping apartment, but has functioned more than adequately in that role.

I now live on an island around 1000 miles from the nearest continental land mass. Its interesting to see the variety of boats that are in the marinas here, both those staying for a year or two and locally owned. Modern, factory produced AWBs are a small minority, mostly big newish ones with lots of bedrooms working in the charter market. A design that suits the clients needs.

 

[[3889]]

I realise the word Beneteau might induce a paroxysm but my first keelboat was a First 305, shortlisted against a Sigma 33. The Firsts of that era were very different from the Oceanis and I found it a joy to sail, the boat I least regret /most rejoice in buying from the subsequent half dozen that have followed. The standard 150% genoa might be a problem but single handing with a 120% No. 2 was not an issue.