Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

smartmove2014 said:
Yes, I've already been advised again twin rudders with regards to manoeuvring in the marina. Whether I go for a 389 (which i am beginning to favour) or 419 it will be fin keel and single rudder.
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I'm confused now - are you the same person as dune16? If so, why the different identities?
 
I only tried to correct a spelling mistake and deleted my entire post. In summary, Jeanneau 389 or 419 with self tacking jib, bow thruster, stack pack main, single rudder and deep keel. I am indeed considering chartering a 379 in advance of placing the order.

Many thanks.
 
dune16 said:
I only tried to correct a spelling mistake and deleted my entire post. In summary, Jeanneau 389 or 419 with self tacking jib, bow thruster, stack pack main, single rudder and deep keel. I am indeed considering chartering a 379 in advance of placing the order.

Many thanks.
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You are aware of the performance issues with self tacking jibs ? Especially on a boat that wasn't designed for one. It's a different thing if the boat was built with one, with the mast further forward to allow for a bigger main, or if the boat is a cutter with a self tacking staysail, but to fit one in place of a genoa would incur a big performance penalty.

I'm single handing with a 140% genoa and can't see the big deal with tacking, unless i was short tacking up a river, maybe.
 
PaulRainbow said:
You are aware of the performance issues with self tacking jibs ? Especially on a boat that wasn't designed for one. It's a different thing if the boat was built with one, with the mast further forward to allow for a bigger main, or if the boat is a cutter with a self tacking staysail, but to fit one in place of a genoa would incur a big performance penalty.

I'm single handing with a 140% genoa and can't see the big deal with tacking, unless i was short tacking up a river, maybe.
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Many modern boats are designed for quite small headsails, often only 106%-110%. The reduced sail area of a self-tacking jib is much less significant.
 
Tranona said:
.....If your sailing experience is mostly in this size of boat, then owning one is not daunting. Perhaps it is people who have gone the "traditional" way of starting small and working up that have difficulty in accepting that a 40' boat is possible for short and single handed sailing.
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But you have just bought a smaller boat and last month told us how tricky it was to handle at close quarters.

It's all a balancing act between the qualities which are nice and the downsides which can be nasty. Anyway dune it looks like you have made up your mind - keep us informed on progress.
 
Adding a bow thruster to my old boat would have solved much of the problem.
There were many reasons for going smaller which I have explained many times, not least now being over 70 and no longer needing the accommodation, nor the work of keeping a 15 year old boat. Add to that, I could afford a new boat and as I am unable to travel as I planned, enjoying a boat that is exactly what I want is a good substitute.
Please
None of that alters the fact that competent active person should have no difficulty in handling the type of boat the OP is considering buying.
 
pvb said:
But the boats the OP mentioned were designed for a self-tacking jib...
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Standard fit is a 106% genoa, with options for a 90% self tacker or a 140% genoa. The self tacker represents a noticable performance hit in my book.

There are better sailplan solutions for this boat than slab reefing and self tacking, IMO.
 
PaulRainbow said:
Standard fit is a 106% genoa, with options for a 90% self tacker or a 140% genoa. The self tacker represents a noticable performance hit in my book.
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Well, it's nearer 92%, but I'd suggest as it's easier to use the performance hit versus the standard jib wouldn't be huge. It's a cruising boat, after all, not a racing boat.
 
dune16 said:
What would your suggestion be then? Just the standard man and genoa? Inmast furling substantially reduces the main sail area and I just have doubts on that system.
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In mast furling has a greater workload reduction than self tacking jibs. The self tacking jib option reduces the headsail from 106% to 90%.

I would go for the in mast furling system with a 140% genoa. You might lose a little mainsail area (not looked at the figures, so not sure of details) but you gain a significant area of headsail. Granted, self furling mains aren't great when furled beyond a certain point, but there is the option of a stormsail track on the mast. You could look into the option of an inner forestay, with self tacking staysail.

As i said earlier, i single hand a 33 footer with a 140% genoa and tacking the genoa is a doddle. From what you've said, your sailing is likely to consist of cruising in fair weather with your family, so storm sails might not be top of your list, neither would short tacking, i would have thought. You could get teenage kids to handle an in mast main or a normal 140% genoa.

Look at the setups the modern charter fleets are running. Read some reviews about modern production boats with in mast furling. Jeanneau have been fitting them for awhile on the SO range, been on the 40 and 43 for 15 years or more. The worst you'll read in a decent review is a comment about the slight performance loss.

So yes, a furling mail doesn't give the very best performance, but neither does a self tacking jib. You need to swap a little of what could be available in "racing" trim for some ease of use and family comfort.

Most of the negative comments you have read on here about furling mains will be based on Olde Worlde systems.
 
pvb said:
Well, it's nearer 92%, but I'd suggest as it's easier to use the performance hit versus the standard jib wouldn't be huge. It's a cruising boat, after all, not a racing boat.
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Personally, i'd rather have the 140% genny. But i'd most likely have a slutter rig with a self tacking staysail if i was ordering a new 419.
 
dune16 said:
What would your suggestion be then? Just the standard man and genoa? Inmast furling substantially reduces the main sail area and I just have doubts on that system.
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If there is any loss in ultimate performance with an in mast it will be more than made up in normal cruising, particularly shorthanded by the convenience of the system and particularly the ability to exactly match the sail area to the conditions rather than being limited to effectively just 3 different sail areas. The first fixed reef loses 20-25% of mainsail area. You should have no worries about the reliability of the system as it is proven over many tens of thousands of boats.

A self tacker is really no big advantage if the standard jib is 106%. The proportions of that rig are much the same as on my Bavaria and work well, except for downwind where you may want to consider a furling cruising chute. This is a much more versatile set up than either the 140% genoa or the self tacker. The problem with the 140% is that it is a pain to tack, but more importantly needs reefing down very early with consequent loss of shape. OK if you sail in areas of very light airs like some of the Med, but really not suitable for our mixed conditions.

With the rig suggested you should be able to use full main and jib up to 20 knots of wind.
 
PaulRainbow said:
Personally, i'd rather have the 140% genny. But i'd most likely have a slutter rig with a self tacking staysail if i was ordering a new 419.
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You seem not to have sailed this sort of boat - they are fractionally rigged mainsail biased and that size genoa is neither necessary or desirable for our conditions. Very different rig from your masthead IOR influenced rig on your boat which needs a big genoa to get it going.

What you are suggesting is not an option on the 419 as the sail combination I suggested earlier is more suitable - and is offered.
 
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