Silly Question: can I go sailing next week when the weather settles down?

[lustyd]

If you need to travel for recreation you're allowed to, yes. There's an obvious preference for it to be local, but if you can't do it locally then travel to any tier is legal under the current wording. Needless to say, don't stop anywhere or interact with people, and make sure you have fuel and food before leaving

 

[JumbleDuck]

If you need to travel for recreation you're allowed to, yes. There's an obvious preference for it to be local, but if you can't do it locally then travel to any tier is legal under the current wording. Needless to say, don't stop anywhere or interact with people, and make sure you have fuel and food before leaving

And be prepared for an awkward conversation with an unsymapathetic police officer. Even if you have right on your side, it may take a trip to court to prove it.

A colleague of my other half decided to drive from East Lothian (L2) into Edinburgh (L3) for a hair do last week. She didn't mind the £30 penalty she was given going in too much, but was a bit put off by the £1000 penalty the same cop gave her on her way home ...

 

[lustyd]

hair cut is not the same as exercise and recreation and you know it. Also, the police don't have carte blanche to interrogate you, it's still a free country for now and usualy policing rules apply regarding interrogation.

 

[Achosenman]

If you need to travel for recreation you're allowed to, yes. There's an obvious preference for it to be local, but if you can't do it locally then travel to any tier is legal under the current wording. Needless to say, don't stop anywhere or interact with people, and make sure you have fuel and food before leaving

Thanks for that. That’s the way I read it. SWMBO tells me I’m often wrong so I thought I’d ask...

 

[JumbleDuck]

hair cut is not the same as exercise and recreation and you know it. Also, the police don't have carte blanche to interrogate you, it's still a free country for now and usualy policing rules apply regarding interrogation.

Of course. But given that travelling significant distances to do something involving minimal physical exertion is certainly not in the spirit and possibly not in the letter of the law, don't be surprised if an unsympathetic cop writes you a nice, big ticket and invites you to tell it to the magistrates if you want to object.

Have you noticed, by the way, that anyone who says "it's a free country" is almost always defending something morally or legally reprehensible? It's first cousin to "I'm not a racist, but ..."

 

[lustyd]

Recreation for mental health is absolutely within both the spirit and the letter of the law, and any "cop" that tries to write a ticket for this will be reprimanded appropriately

 

[JumbleDuck]

Recreation for mental health is absolutely within both the spirit and the letter of the law, and any "cop" that tries to write a ticket for this will be reprimanded appropriately

If you feel able to prove that you have mental health problems alleviated by sailing, so for it. I imagine you'll need a professional diagnosis to confirm that "mental health" is not simply "feeling more cheerful".

Or you could just not travel and not endanger other people. Up to you.

 

[lustyd]

You're confused JD, we're not guity until proven innocent here. The police need to have suspicion a crime has been commited in the first instance, and so if they stop you and you say you're going to exercise then that's the end of the conversation. If they have some evidence you're not going to exercise then they need to put that forwards before the conversation continues.
Once they establish that you are, in fact, going to a boat for recreation and doing so legally, then they are obliged to let you carry on about your business.

This is not endangering other people, give it a rest. It's completely isolated activity.

 

[Lucky Duck]

And be prepared for an awkward conversation with an unsymapathetic police officer. Even if you have right on your side, it may take a trip to court to prove it.

A colleague of my other half decided to drive from East Lothian (L2) into Edinburgh (L3) for a hair do last week. She didn't mind the £30 penalty she was given going in too much, but was a bit put off by the £1000 penalty the same cop gave her on her way home ...

The Scottish regulations have contained explicit restrictions on travel between 'tiers' for a while now.

Those provisions are not included in the English regulations so this discussion is spanning two different sets of legislation which is not terribly helpful.

 

[JumbleDuck]

You're confused JD, we're not guity until proven innocent here. The police need to have suspicion a crime has been commited in the first instance, and so if they stop you and you say you're going to exercise then that's the end of the conversation.

Good luck with that.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The Scottish regulations have contained explicit restrictions on travel between 'tiers' for a while now.

Those provisions are not included in the English regulations so this discussion is spanning two different sets of legislation which is not terribly helpful.

Thanks. Good point. Having clearer regulations is an advantage, I think.

 

[dom]

You're confused JD, we're not guity until proven innocent here. The police need to have suspicion a crime has been commited in the first instance, and so if they stop you and you say you're going to exercise then that's the end of the conversation. If they have some evidence you're not going to exercise then they need to put that forwards before the conversation continues.
Once they establish that you are, in fact, going to a boat for recreation and doing so legally, then they are obliged to let you carry on about your business.

This is not endangering other people, give it a rest. It's completely isolated activity.

Bear in mind that virtually everyone stopped and fined will have a similar smart arse "I know my rights" excuse!

And as JD correctly points out, many cops will happily oblige Smart Alec's who wish to road test their legal prowess in a real court

 

[lustyd]

And many of those police officers learn their lesson when the judge explains the law to them. Many of the current guidelines aren't law in England anyway so the police aren't interested in enforcing them and don't have the resources regardless.
If you genuinely think a solo trip to a boat is a problem then you must be terrified of the schools reopening shortly!

 

[JumbleDuck]

If you genuinely think a solo trip to a boat is a problem then you must be terrified of the schools reopening shortly!

You'll note that school opening has been delayed by at least two weeks in Scotland and may yet be delayed further. If you are not terrified - or at least extremely worried - by what lies ahead of us then you probably haven't been followng the news.

Boat in Portsmouth, eh? God help you if you have a heart attack or RTA on your way there or back for a sailing jolly, because news cases in Portsmouth are up 68% on last week and every ICU bed in the area is full already. Still, as you gasp, wince or bleed your last in a corridor your mental health will be fine, which is nice.

 

[lustyd]

yup, and Scotland stats are going in the right direction. I've studied the stats for England and our downturns are consistently following school closures or holidays. I've also overlaid the pub closure rules on that data so know the truth there too. It's not that cases stopped on the same day the pubs closed, and that wasn't a coincidence.

Note that nobody in the government are talking about how to make the NHS better in the future, neither are they talking about slowing or reducing population density. Quite the opposite, we're full speed ahead building blocks of flats to make sure people are nice and close together all in the name of "growth" aka protecting the pension house of cards. Yes, the ICU is full, but there are 4000+ beds in Excel going spare, perhaps we just lack enough sheets to use them?

 

[dom]

yup, and Scotland stats are going in the right direction. I've studied the stats for England and our downturns are consistently following school closures or holidays. I've also overlaid the pub closure rules on that data so know the truth there too. It's not that cases stopped on the same day the pubs closed, and that wasn't a coincidence.

Note that nobody in the government are talking about how to make the NHS better in the future, neither are they talking about slowing or reducing population density. Quite the opposite, we're full speed ahead building blocks of flats to make sure people are nice and close together all in the name of "growth" aka protecting the pension house of cards. Yes, the ICU is full, but there are 4000+ beds in Excel going spare, perhaps we just lack enough sheets to use them?

Gosh, having sorted out the police officers, you're now going to set right the epedemiologists and ITU consultants.

Respect!
?

 

[lustyd]

The front end of the NHS is doing exceptionally well. My point was that we keep getting told the NHS can't cope and a responsible government would plan to correct that, rather than expanding military funding during peace time, or making a railway nobody seems to want, or paying people to go and socialise during a pandemic...

 

[JumbleDuck]

yup, and Scotland stats are going in the right direction. I've studied the stats for England and our downturns are consistently following school closures or holidays.

We're getting rather off-topic, butthere seems to be a fair scientific consensus that it's OK to keep schools open, with sensible precautions, as long as cases aren't soaring in the surrounding community. On that basis, re-opening in much of England seems crazy. Yes, we're doing better here (about 1/4 of the cases per head) but I have horrible feeling we'll be just as bad quite soon. Dumfries and Galloway has come off very well so far, but there is a big outbreak in Wigtownshire which is causing a lot of worry.

Yes, the ICU is full, but there are 4000+ beds in Excel going spare, perhaps we just lack enough sheets to use them?

There are no nurses to staff it. The Nightingales were always a desperate last hope. Looks as if they will be needed very soon.

 

[lustyd]

We have a large military that could staff it. Covid care is fairly basic and could be taught quickly to scale up with a few fully trained people for unusual things that come up. As large part of it is observation and providing oxygen and soldiers could easily handle that to take pressure off of hospitals. That may even allow hospitals to capacity for other treatments back up to scale.

 

[Slowboat35]

but was a bit put off by the £1000 penalty the same cop gave her on her way home ...

However even in the mad fish-woman's fiefdom a Police Officer can't give you a £1000 penalty any more than he can give you a prison sentence so I'll call you out on that...