should delivery crew have to pay

[Seajet]

Or paying some one for the privilege of being on the vessel (except for reasonable expenses....).

Spiffing if sitting around getting a suntan; for stuff like maintenance, helming & being remotely useful, stump up & pay !

I know people with houses worth a £million or more, but they have to pay the gardeners a reasonable rate, and the landscapers ( skippers / navigators ) a good deal more.

If someone is rich & daft enough to own a boat they can't handle themselves & need to employ crew on, they will have to realise those crew are living beings, who also have their own bills to pay.

'Coming along for the - working hard & life threatening - 'experience' - is utter B******S, try putting those terms into a job description !

 

[V1701]

+1 with Seajet...

 

[Pete R]

Commercial in the MCA sense, is getting paid whilst crewing/skippering the vessel.

Can you point me in the direction of any kind of legislation on that?

And if you are correct can you answer the the other question?

If you are correct then every time someone pays me to move their boat they first have to get it coded. Can that be correct?

 

[Neil_Y]

My understanding as a skipper is that the MCA is concerned if the boat is making money, so if you are charging or people are paying whilst on a passage then they are passengers and need looking after.

As a paid skipper or crew you are a cost to the vessel then you are an employee, usually self employed or on some vessels an employee with all that that requires.

So if some one falls into the passenger group you need codeing.

 

[westernman]

Or paying some one for the privilege of being on the vessel (except for reasonable expenses....).

If a vessel carries passengers or is chartered out - it is commercial and is subject to the MCA coding rules (if British flagged, and some other flag states as well).

A passenger = some one who pays to be on the vessel (above reasonable share of fuel and food expenses).

I was making no comment about whether crew on delivery trips should be paid or not - but if they are paying more than a share of fuel and food expenses, the vessel would need to be coded and would be subject to the manning requirements for the waters they are crossing. (E.g. Cat 0 for Biscay with 2 YMs etc etc).

I think the owner of a vessel paying crew directly or indirectly (e.g. via a delivery company) does not make that a commercial operation (unless he takes on passengers).

 

[wklein]

pyd apprenticeship

I looked at doing this after i had finished my yachtmaster, dismissed it as free labour as i could easily build up those miles paid. They were asking £3500. If they were taking people from scratch i could understand but once you have qualified as a yachtmaster you should be more than capable of earning your keep as crew.

 

[Pete R]

If PYD are the principals, then the owner is paying them & must be a commercial delivery & would require correct manning quals etc.

Commercial in the MCA sense, is getting paid whilst crewing/skippering the vessel.

Alant, on your web site you say you are an experienced skipper and advertise yourself for deliveries so any chance of backing up your statements or is this another one your wind ups like the ENG1 ML5 discussion?

 

[alant]

Alant, on your web site you say you are an experienced skipper and advertise yourself for deliveries so any chance of backing up your statements or is this another one your wind ups like the ENG1 ML5 discussion?

Why not ask the MCA!

"If a vessel carries passengers or is chartered out - it is commercial and is subject to the MCA coding rules (if British flagged, and some other flag states as well).

A passenger = some one who pays to be on the vessel (above reasonable share of fuel and food expenses)."

"Only to be used in conjunction with MGN 280

“Pleasure vessel” as defined in the Merchant Shipping (Small Commercial Vessels and Pilot
Boats) Regulations 2004, means;
(a) a vessel which -
(i) is owned by an individual, and
(ii) at the time it is being used -

(aa) is used only for the sport or pleasure of the owner or the immediate family or
friends of the owner, and
(bb) is on a free voyage or excursion;
(b) a vessel which -
(i) is owned by a body corporate, and
(ii) at the time it is being used -
(aa) is used only for the sport or pleasure of employees or officers of the body
corporate, or their immediate family or friends, and
(bb) is on a free voyage or excursion;
(c) a vessel -
(i) which is owned by or on behalf of the members of a members’ club,
(ii) which, at the time it is being used, is used only for the sport or pleasure of a member
of that club, his immediate family or his guest, and
(iii) for the use of which no payment is made other than a payment into the funds of the
members club which funds are applied for the general use of the members club.
In this definition, “free voyage or excursion” means a voyage or excursion in respect
of which -
(a) subject to paragraphs (b) and (c), no money is paid, and no goods or services are
provided, by any person;
(b) the owner of the vessel engaged in the voyage or excursion may pay money, or provide
goods and services, to any person; and
(c) the owner of the vessel engaged in the voyage or excursion may only receive -
(i) money for, or in connection with, the operation of the vessel or the carrying of any
person in the vessel as a contribution to the direct expenses of the operation of the
vessel incurred during the voyage or excursion, or
(ii) goods and services which are used or provided on the vessel during the voyage
or excursion."

 

[Pete R]

Why not ask the MCA!

I did, before I started dong deliveries, which I thought you would have done as well.

No where in those rules you reproduced does it back up the 2 statements you made. In fact the first sentence shows them up to be wrong as the vessel is not chartered or carrying passengers.

You say have done deliveries so are you saying that the owner had to get the boat coded before you took it on?

You say you are an RYA instructor. Have you had to code a boat before doing any "own boat" tuition?

Someone who is taking the Yachtmaster exam on their own boat and pays an examiner to come on board, would they have to code the boat and have the correct manning levels on board?

A normal everyday pleasure vessel does not need to be coded as long as the owner is not making any money from it. The delivery skipper may be making money from it but that kind of commercial transaction is of no interest of the MCA.

 

[alant]

I did, before I started dong deliveries, which I thought you would have done as well.

No where in those rules you reproduced does it back up the 2 statements you made. In fact the first sentence shows them up to be wrong as the vessel is not chartered or carrying passengers.

You say have done deliveries so are you saying that the owner had to get the boat coded before you took it on?

You say you are an RYA instructor. Have you had to code a boat before doing any "own boat" tuition?

Someone who is taking the Yachtmaster exam on their own boat and pays an examiner to come on board, would they have to code the boat and have the correct manning levels on board?

A normal everyday pleasure vessel does not need to be coded as long as the owner is not making any money from it. The delivery skipper may be making money from it but that kind of commercial transaction is of no interest of the MCA.

When did I say a boat had to be coded?

 

[Pete R]

When did I say a boat had to be coded?

If it wasn't coded then it would not need "correct manning quals" or be "commercial in the MCA sense". Would it?

At least I answer your questions. I remember you reacted the same way on the medical thread posting wrong information and then being unable to back it up.

 

[alant]

If it wasn't coded then it would not need "correct manning quals" or be "commercial in the MCA sense". Would it?

At least I answer your questions. I remember you reacted the same way on the medical thread posting wrong information and then being unable to back it up.

[removed by admin]

Maybe you should stick to sandcastles.

 

[Pete R]

I remember, thats the thread where you eroniously slandered/libelled RYA credentials.

Your memory and your knowledge are now both at fault, again.

I see that you still have not answered the questions or shown any basis for your statements.

I find your accusation of slander/libel very offensive and you will now have to show where I did that. Good Luck.

 

[alant]

Your memory and your knowledge are now both at fault, again.

I see that you still have not answered the questions or shown any basis for your statements.

I find your accusation of slander/libel very offensive and you will now have to show where I did that. Good Luck.

That's because you got 'em pulled!

"Pete R
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 288

Quote:
Originally Posted by webcraft
.
Has AlanT gone crying to the Mods, or was it VO5? Am I the only one who finds it strange that this thread has gone with no explanation?

I asked for it to be closed last night as there was some serious Trolling going on by the two you mentioned above.

I am surprised it has been removed though. "

 

[Pete R]

That's because you got 'em pulled!

I do not have that power. Nor did I ask for it to pulled as your quote clearly shows.

You still have prove your accusation of slander/libel or you must retract it.

 

[tim_ber]

I have crewed for delivery companies for expenses (flights and food) and I still felt the company was getting good value for money.

Delivery is not easy (if sailing non-stop) and I certainly would have prefered to have been paid.

I would not pay to be crew unless it was an exceptional boat / experience.

 

[alant]

I do not have that power. Nor did I ask for it to pulled as your quote clearly shows.

You still have prove your accusation of slander/libel or you must retract it.

Or?

 

[scej]

I think this is simple case. If you pay to go on a delivery trip you are a passenger, simple. In which case the boat needs to be coded. If you crew on a delivery trip and contribute to fuel and marina fees again you are a passenger and the boat should be coded. If you go and share food expenses and pay your own travel on a delivery trip for a commercial company then that is up to you and as far as that is concerned I don't believe the boat should be coded although you will be aware you are free labour and you can be sure that the delivery company will have charged the owners for you and your expenses! When I take crew on deliveries they are paid a daily fee, their food bills are paid and all costs for transport are paid to return them to port of departure or to their home. I would also point out that as I deliver motor yachts we do not cook on board the vessel at all and we will have a meal ashore in a resteraunt each day.

 

[webcraft]

.
The idea that a vessel being delivered would have to be coded seems daft, as the added cost and time would make the delivery cost prohibitive.

Why have no delivery skippers commented on this thread?

- W

 

[alteredoutlook]

.

Why have no delivery skippers commented on this thread?

- W

Because they dont want to destroy their employment with the delivery companies!