Shetland - no life raft, no EPIRB/PLBs, no survival suits - would you?

[estarzinger]

We are offshore sailors, RTW twice, including Cape Horn.

We have never carried a raft. This is due to three threads of thought/philosophy. One is that we prefer to focus on (and "invest in") prevention (like seamanship and water tight bulkheads); two is that quite a bit of this "safety" gear turns out to be poorly designed and built for its purpose (life rafts in particular, but also life jackets, both have relatively poor actual performance records), and third is a general desire to be self-reliant and self rescue and not take up the 999/911 mentality. We are cruising for pleasure and challenge and a sense if accomplishment, and desire not to put others at risk, although I am self aware enough to realize I will be delighted for help if I think I am dying.

We were in the majority in all the above when we started cruising, but are now in a small minority.

In cold water cruising, I do carry and wear a dry suit - simply because I think it is much better suited for purpose than "normal foul weather gear". You can get a green wave over your head and you stay completely dry - no dripping down sheaves or neck, and if you go in the water, it provides both buoyancy and (some amount of) hypothermia protection.

 

[OceanSprint]

estarzinger's response is really interesting, and well expressed.

It seems to me many of us have considered all the different factors involved in our response to safety and risk :

- distance from help
- density of shipping / boating in our areas
- weather / sea temperatures / conditions where we sail
- who we carry (health / age / experience / fitness etc)
- nature of our boat
- our attitude to risk, and our philosophy to deal with it
- what equipment is available and it's use, including training

and we have all come up with solutions that suit ourselves.

I personaly think this is good, and am not advocating for any form of compulsory approach, nor saying anyone is better or worse than anyone else.

But I suspect the really dangerous people, to themselves and others, are those who have not thought about any of the details above, and go to sea without much preperation.

 

[dylanwinter]

It's a bit like insurance - it's a heck of a cost for nothing....

However, just think that you might find yourself in a sinking boat - and it can happen - and you have no back-up solution.

get on the radio, start blowing up the dinghy, let off a flare, phone the rescue services

bale like a goodun

lots to keep me busy while she sinks

 

[pmagowan]

estarzinger's response is really interesting, and well expressed.

It seems to me many of us have considered all the different factors involved in our response to safety and risk :

- distance from help
- density of shipping / boating in our areas
- weather / sea temperatures / conditions where we sail
- who we carry (health / age / experience / fitness etc)
- nature of our boat
- our attitude to risk, and our philosophy to deal with it
- what equipment is available and it's use, including training

and we have all come up with solutions that suit ourselves.

I personaly think this is good, and am not advocating for any form of compulsory approach, nor saying anyone is better or worse than anyone else.

But I suspect the really dangerous people, to themselves and others, are those who have not thought about any of the details above, and go to sea without much preperation.

Yes, I think legislation would be a shame and it is nice that boating is still relatively free from it. I think there is the potential that someone may have to defend their actions but in this scenario I would suggest that your solution is best, simply showing that you have thought about it and been reasonable.

My current sailing is up the West coast of Scotland in a 28' wooden boat and I do have a liferaft. It is not stored on deck due to the effect it has on the trim of the boat and there being nowhere to store it where it would not increase the risk of falling overboard. I keep it in the forecabin when underway which is not ideal if it is needed but I would hope to have the time to recover it. I have some new and old flares in a grab bag. I have lifejackets and wear them when I see fit. I have dsc VHF and a good plotter. When conditions get bad I tie myself to the mainsheet traveler which runs behind the tiller and send everyone else below.

My future plans are more extreme and I wish to make long passages into the North and into ice territory. Since I am designing and building my boat I will make all the reasonable precautions I think I can in the construction process. I expect never to need them but I actually think that if I make the boat less 'sinkable' then I could do without a life raft. I don't see these massive drawbacks to what I would consider to be reasonable design decisions to take into account the use which the craft is created. If I was building a lifeboat it would be different still. If I was building something for twiddling round a clam lake on a sunday afternoon then it would be different too.

If you are going to create something you might as well do a good job, especially if it is going to be the last boat you own. I don't intend change much about the way I use my current boat. If I start doing any singlehanded sailing I might get a PLB or similar device.

 

[Tranona]

We are offshore sailors, RTW twice, including Cape Horn.

We have never carried a raft. This is due to three threads of thought/philosophy. One is that we prefer to focus on (and "invest in") prevention (like seamanship and water tight bulkheads); two is that quite a bit of this "safety" gear turns out to be poorly designed and built for its purpose (life rafts in particular, but also life jackets, both have relatively poor actual performance records), and third is a general desire to be self-reliant and self rescue and not take up the 999/911 mentality. We are cruising for pleasure and challenge and a sense if accomplishment, and desire not to put others at risk, although I am self aware enough to realize I will be delighted for help if I think I am dying.

We were in the majority in all the above when we started cruising, but are now in a small minority.

Suspect the change in attitude to survival equipment and particularly liferafts is due to the dramatic fall in cost relative to other boat costs, the general increase in boat sizes (reducing the storage problem) and the increase in communication media. The last one, particularly EPIRBs increases the chances of letting other know you need help, so the time spent in a raft is likely to be shorter and survivable.

However, you are right that such devices are not very good for the intended purpose, but there are still many who owe their lives to them.

 

[Robin]

Should the liferaft have a liferaft, especially as it is a much more dangerous place than the main boat that you worryworts stepped down into it from, you did step down into the raft didn't you?

Very few boats cruising our new area have liferafts, that includes us. Rafts here costs 4 or 5 times what one does in the UK and the service costs are even more astronomic. Like many here we would rely on our tender which in our case is a 10ft RIB carried in stern davits and if we had time/opportunity we could even put the 10hp mercury on the back. We don't expect to be more than 30 miles or so from dry land so always in VHF range and if we did bail out to the dink with outboard fitted in place we could probably reach dry land in under 2 hours.

Every time I read threads like this one I lean harder towards our secondary hobby ofplaying golf instead of going boating except there are some nasty things on our local courses like gators, snakes and gun toting rednecks, not forgetting the Lady Captain.:nonchalance:

 

[Sybarite]

Should the liferaft have a liferaft, especially as it is a much more dangerous place than the main boat that you worryworts stepped down into it from, you did step down into the raft didn't you?

Very few boats cruising our new area have liferafts, that includes us. Rafts here costs 4 or 5 times what one does in the UK and the service costs are even more astronomic. Like many here we would rely on our tender which in our case is a 10ft RIB carried in stern davits and if we had time/opportunity we could even put the 10hp mercury on the back. We don't expect to be more than 30 miles or so from dry land so always in VHF range and if we did bail out to the dink with outboard fitted in place we could probably reach dry land in under 2 hours.

Every time I read threads like this one I lean harder towards our secondary hobby ofplaying golf instead of going boating except there are some nasty things on our local courses like gators, snakes and gun toting rednecks, not forgetting the Lady Captain.:nonchalance:

This is what you need:

http://www.portlandpudgy.com/ http://www.portlandpudgy.com/Portland Pudgy lifeboat w bg.htm

 

[JumbleDuck]

Like many here we would rely on our tender which in our case is a 10ft RIB carried in stern davits and if we had time/opportunity we could even put the 10hp mercury on the back. We don't expect to be more than 30 miles or so from dry land so always in VHF range and if we did bail out to the dink with outboard fitted in place we could probably reach dry land in under 2 hours.

I tow a rigid dinghy with lots of sealed in buoyancy. It wouldn't be terribly nice in a gale (though it has never capsized on tow, or even taken in much water), but then a liferaft wouldn't be very nice in a gale either.

 

[Robin]

This is what you need:

http://www.portlandpudgy.com/ http://www.portlandpudgy.com/Portland Pudgy lifeboat w bg.htm

Looks neat but too late now, no money left in the boat budget.