Shetland 4 +2 for European Waterways?

[chinita]

As a Raggie I rarely venture into these parts but I find myself needing the collective wisdom.

We have two yachts, a MAB which we use on the East coast during the 'summer', and a 10m GRP jobber we keep on the Algarve for winter.

We are looking at other options. We are getting tired of weather dependency sailing and trying to work out how to resolve the iffy summers of late.

We both want to do the European waterways, particularly the quieter arms of the French canal system. Draft (air and water) are therefore important. Ease of maintenance is also important and we subscribe to KISS. We are pretty minimalist and have lived for months on a 25ft wooden boat in the UK.

So, I have been considering an off-new Shetland 4 + 2 Hardtop with a 25hp o/b. Seems to me that this is low maintenance, simple enough to lock up and leave, accommodation is about comparable with what we are used to (in fact it has pressurised hot water with a shower!!!) the engine gives enough power for tidal rivers and to cross the Channel but should be ok for quiet pottering at 4 kts, cheap to insure, moor, transport etc.......

What am I missing (apart from feeling a bit of a plonker)?

All comments welcome.

 

[No Regrets]

Cross the channel?

You may have to wait for a very nice day!!!

 

[Kawasaki]

There was an article in MBM or MBY some years ago, I might still have the copy
Bod in a Shetland Family Four who did the Canals and the Channel
As No Regrets said, you need ideal conditions
The 4+ 2 hardtop, Hmm, with only a 25?
The Family Four has less windage and for it's size quite a good sea boat
The Bod had a 50 on the blunt end if I remember rightly
I need to get rid of a load of MBM's and MBY's, cos we is thinning out!
I will delve in amongst the Pile and see if I can find the article and post it to you chinita.
So I take this opportunity to offer the Mags, they date from 1985 to 2011, to anyone who wants them!!!

 

[No Regrets]

The boat is seaworthy enough, lets be fair, NB's do that trip, but I would want a super-reliable engine, plus a decent spare, lots of fuel and top quality comms/ Nav.

You seem mad enough to make it work in fairness

 

[FalconSteve]

There was an article in MBM or MBY some years ago, I might still have the copy
Bod in a Shetland Family Four who did the Canals and the Channel
As No Regrets said, you need ideal conditions
The 4+ 2 hardtop, Hmm, with only a 25?
The Family Four has less windage and for it's size quite a good sea boat
The Bod had a 50 on the blunt end if I remember rightly
I need to get rid of a load of MBM's and MBY's, cos we is thinning out!
I will delve in amongst the Pile and see if I can find the article and post it to you chinita.
So I take this opportunity to offer the Mags, they date from 1985 to 2011, to anyone who wants them!!!

I'd love to take them off your hands, I'm completely new to boating, I reckon I'd learn a lot from the issues around the era of my Falcon 27. if you're happy for me to have them, I'll need to quote a courier to get them to me! I doubt it would be cheap though.

 

[chinita]

Thanks so far.

I seem to have mad a mistake by mentioning 'The Channel'. I am not looking for a sea boat. If I was, I would be asking questions about Hardys etc. The intention is to spend all of the time on European inland waterways and, having read reports of flat bottomed NBs crossing the Channel at 4kts did not think that a 3 hour good weather window to cross from Dover to Calais at 12kts was too demanding.

25hp? Yes, it appears that the boat can take up to 90hp. 90hp on inland waterways!!? Is 10 - 12 kts through a 25hp sufficient to stem the Rhone current? I would have thought so.

Kwacker, thanks for the offer. Let me know if you find the article. Much appreciated.

 

[No Regrets]

10-12 kts?

Hmmm. My Shetland 570 didn't do that with 25hp!!

8-10 perhaps? That was a faster hull too....

40hp is more like it. 4 stroke for the slow bits...

 

[chinita]

10-12 kts?

Hmmm. My Shetland 570 didn't do that with 25hp!!

8-10 perhaps? That was a faster hull too....

40hp is more like it. 4 stroke for the slow bits...

8 kts cruising 12 kts max is the figure quoted by the Broker:

Engine model: Honda BF5 4 Stroke Outboard
Engine power: 25 HP
Engine hours: 308
Fuel type: Petrol (Gas)
Crusing Speed: 8 Knots
Maximum Speed: 12 Knots

.....and another one:

Electrics and Mechanics

Honda 25hp (10/12 knots) with electric tilt
Stainless steel inboard fuel tank 66lt
Full set of navigational lights
2x 110 amp batteries
Manual bilge pump

Perhaps he timed it on the Serpentine with a 9kt following wind, I don't know, I am just the messenger.

However, I will say again. It is one Channel crossing over 22 miles. It may require maximum performance, it may not. In any event I have enough experience at sea to determine whether conditions favour a safe crossing or not. If somebody here can convince me that it is unsafe, fine, I will trailer the thing through the tunnel.

For the vast majority of the time the boat will be travelling at 4kts on rancid, stagnant canals - apart for the odd occasion when an adverse river tide will be stemmed.

 

[lenten]

i wouldn t think you would have enough hp to plane but 22 miles at displacement speed is no big deal and for canals why have anything bigger than you need-----regards lenten

 

[Kawasaki]

I'd love to take them off your hands, I'm completely new to boating, I reckon I'd learn a lot from the issues around the era of my Falcon 27. if you're happy for me to have them, I'll need to quote a courier to get them to me! I doubt it would be cheap though.

No sweat FalconSteve
There will be some Falcon stuff in there somewhere no doubt
I will check how mutch a Container will be from Anglesey to Basigstoke and send you a PM!

 

[Kawasaki]

Kwacker, thanks for the offer. Let me know if you find the article. Much appreciated.

I will sift through the Mags chinita, if I find it I will post it on, just stick a fiver in yer favourite charity box.
Afore Falcon Steve spends £1000 on carraige fer em!
Apart from the Mobo Mags there are some Yachty Mags as well
I know I know, I just bought them in a weak moment!
Oh! as well as
I have some Admiralty 'Small Craft Folios' going spare
SC5604 -Channel Islands 1999
SC5601- East Devon and Dorset coast 2005 x 2 off
If anyone wants them
Bottle of Grog fer a swap!
Oh! and a Rover P6 3.5 LITRE AUTO only done 60.000 miles, in 'Burnt Grey'
Good on ere innit
Better than Flea Bay!
Or goin in the fer sale section

 

[Jim@sea]

I would have thought that a Shetland with a small outboard would just be within what you are allowed to tow on a trailer. ie 3500 kilos. Assuming the trailer weighs around 1000 kilos you can then carry a 2500 kilo boat. So I would tow the boat over to France.
You always have to remember that one day you may want to sell your Shetland and if it still in France, as a relatively unknown make over there you would struggle to sell it, whereas if you still had the trailer you took the boat over on you would bring it back to the UK to sell it.
Either that or pay someone to put the boat on their trailer, run it through the tunnel and plonk it in the water, in a canal in France.
And dont forget you need a "Certificate de Bateau"

 

[chinita]

Thanks. that would probably be the way it will pan out as the starting point will be Norfolk and a lot easier to trail through the tunnel rather than motor over the Estuary. I already have the van which can handle it.

I was really more interested in comments relating to handling a light displacement, high windage boat with an outboard through the river canal system - locks etc I am more used to a 25 ton steel ketch!

 

[Nautibusiness]

I do agree with the sentiments from my forumite colleagues, but it perhaps comes from the fact that nearly all of us know of the Shetland range as the rather untidy boats in the corner of a river bank going green with algae.
For most of us they are not exactly known for their ocean going qualities.

However... the little Shetland 535 based hulls are exceptionally sea worthy for their size. They do look like caravans inside and they do look like little river cruisers on the outside, but for some that is a perfect blend of what they hope to achieve.
This particular hull has been produced for something close to 40 years and the early versions are still in use today as soggy logs, but very proudly owned as somebody's very first ever fishing boat.

The hull itself carries enough of a reputation to be used by Pirate Boats of Pembrokeshire in their Pirate 18 range of offshore angling boats.
I believe that the basics of the hull are also used by the Raider 18 angling boat too.
Rather crazy friends of mine regularly take their Raider 18 over to the channel islands... Doesn't make it right, but they do.

I also poo poo'd the boat mercilessly until just a day or so ago when a gentleman came into our brokerage office and asked if we could help sell his late father in laws Shetland Family Four.
I had visions of a 30 years old soggy log.
He went on to tell me that his 91 year old father in law had bought the boat show boat just two years ago to take his lady friend for cruises up the Wareham River.
Sadly, a year later he passed away.

I collected the boat from a nearby marina and apart from being grubby and, yes, outside looking like it would grace the upper reaches of the Thames, the 50Hp 4s sparked up on the button and I was really rather impressed by the very well thought out interior. Caravan like yes, but proper upholstery and nice fittings with everything in its place.

With the 50Hp and a filfthy hull she managed about 22 or 23 knots (light) and the ride reminded me of my very first 535... a really good hull.

So, don't be put off by all the nay sayers, but do consider a much larger engine to start. At tickover the 50Hp is unlikely to use hardly anymore fuel than the 25Hp you mention, but it will have the power to get you out of trouble.
The one we have here doesn't have a camper canvas (could be fitted), but I imagine that with one, if owners are used to "Glamping" she would be really rather good for extended holidays.
And, in the right hands and the right weather, which I stress, she will have no problems with one of the shorter channel crossings such as from Dover or Folkestone.

 

[tabler]

As soon as I started reading this thread, I went to find a link to a boat I spotted just 'mooching around the forum looking at boaty stuff'.....

http://www.shetlandboats.co.uk/brokerage/81.php

Look at the kit that this little beauty has on her..an absolute steal at that price.

 

[chinita]

Thanks for that, Tabler. This is just what I was thinking of - but preferably with the hard top.

Having gone through the French canals one could whizz along the Med a day at a time with 80hp behind you I presume

 

[rbmatthews]

Apologies if I am breaking forum etiquette by resuscitating this thread after so long, but I have really only just discovered this forum and was fascinated to read the comments about Shetlands, the main reason being that we have a 1989 Shetland Family Four which is an ongoing project.

I can certainly vouch for their seaworthiness - every year for the last six years we have taken her to the west coast of Scotland and lived on her for 2-3 weeks and explored different parts of the coast and islands. This has included the Caledonian and Crinan canals, the Sound of Mull, Loch Sunart, Lochs Hourn and Nevis, the Inner Sound off Skye, the Small Isles (Muck, Eigg, Rum and Canna), Kyles of Bute, Loch Fyne, Loch Sween, and just this year, a circumnavigation of Jura (including the Corryvreckan and the Grey Dogs), and part of Islay. We love nothing better than finding some remote anchorage off the beaten track somewhere and enjoying the peace and quiet with freshly cooked fish and a bottle of wine, apart, that is, from finding a lively pub somewhere, and swapping stories with raggies across from Ireland, as we did this year on Jura. She has a Mariner 75 hp and 90 litre fuel tanks with a range of up to 250 miles depending on how hard we push her, which can be nearly 30 knots if the wind is behind us.

The French canals are on our to do list, probably not for 3-4 years yet, so I was really interested to hear that there was an article in MBM about doing these in an F4 - did you ever locate the article - Kawazaki, I think it was?

Rob.

 

[Seastoke]

Kwakers cant find is rib some days

apologies if i am breaking forum etiquette by resuscitating this thread after so long, but i have really only just discovered this forum and was fascinated to read the comments about shetlands, the main reason being that we have a 1989 shetland family four which is an ongoing project.

I can certainly vouch for their seaworthiness - every year for the last six years we have taken her to the west coast of scotland and lived on her for 2-3 weeks and explored different parts of the coast and islands. This has included the caledonian and crinan canals, the sound of mull, loch sunart, lochs hourn and nevis, the inner sound off skye, the small isles (muck, eigg, rum and canna), kyles of bute, loch fyne, loch sween, and just this year, a circumnavigation of jura (including the corryvreckan and the grey dogs), and part of islay. We love nothing better than finding some remote anchorage off the beaten track somewhere and enjoying the peace and quiet with freshly cooked fish and a bottle of wine, apart, that is, from finding a lively pub somewhere, and swapping stories with raggies across from ireland, as we did this year on jura. She has a mariner 75 hp and 90 litre fuel tanks with a range of up to 250 miles depending on how hard we push her, which can be nearly 30 knots if the wind is behind us.

The french canals are on our to do list, probably not for 3-4 years yet, so i was really interested to hear that there was an article in mbm about doing these in an f4 - did you ever locate the article - kawazaki, i think it was?

Rob.