Sextant shortage

As I said I did the YM Astro course purely for fun. RYA courses are just that, fun, informative and a bit of a social meet up the odd dark winters evening. A good instructor who can mix teaching with entertainment and "real world" experiences makes all the difference.
 
I got him to count the flashes and to tell me how far apart they were by using handspans.
I was able to get an idea of where he was roughly.

A handspan?

A handspan?

At arms length that's around 15 degrees.

I use that & Polaris to interest muggles in basic celestial :-)

I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned _Barefoot Navigator_.
 
Does the RYA teach at Ocean level scenarios like-'OK lightning has struck, you have lost all things electrical in the boat and possibly have new unknown compass errors. Now get on with it...''

Y'know, it's not so much the enshrining of astro and the sanctity of the sextant that I'd like to see. It is, rather, the re-establishment and support for the fundamental truth - that, on the water, we should expect, and be expected, to be self-reliant.

If the primary halyard abrades through, we rig up something else. If there's a leaky hull fitting, we stop it. If one means of providing navigational information goes 'tits-up' for whatever reason, we use something else.

'Reversionary techniques'..... or "What do we do if....?"

An encouragement, please, - from the RYA and other bodies that set themselves up over the rest of us - that the proper and respected way to go about our business on the water is to deal with the inconveniences, the problems that occur, the equipment failures, quietly, effectively and without creating a fuss.

I'm quite confident I can find the coast of France - day or night - from either end of the Isle of Wight, without GPS, AIS, TSS or SOS. The Romans managed it, The Phoenicians managed it. The mediaeval Dutch managed it. Only the Spanish seemed to have had some trouble. :D

Cross the Atlantic from Portugal? Easy! Take a couple of carracks, some pickled fish ( bacalao ), plenty of dried bread and wine, then go as far downwind as the Canary Island fishermen do, then just keep going. We'd surely rock up somewhere with a good band, good rum, and an interesting way with chillies and chicken. Simples!

As long as we can keep the ocean on the outside, the crew on the inside, move it somehow and steer it, we don't have a crisis on a boat. All the rest of the stuff is just pandering to paranoia. Yes? No?

:)
 
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Definately yes. There is a lot of **** talked about "essential" abilities with sextants and deep skill navigation that isn't really required at all. The RYA Ocean thingy isn't a legal requirement to cross an ocean on your own - it's a certificate that MAY be used for commercial purposes (with the other bits and pieces) if anyone would employ you having regard to your experience. The use of a sextant is a dying art that many of us would like to keep alive out of interest and curiosity rather than the dire necessity that some would have us believe, the alternatives are here to stay!
 
good morning to all !

i agree completely with the post of snowleopard #83 ! no sence of arguing more !

as the interest of using the sextant is obviously very great and not so easy understandable for many, what i would like to suggest, for some of the winter's weekends, is to prepare and arrange a short introduction internet course/discussion, whatever you like to call it, for practical use and position fix, using the sextant!

what i have in mind:
- sextant - how to use and error finding
- VERY BRIEF theory for horizontal and equatorial systems or how are the stars positions
and indentified on the sky - needed to understand, why you will need the declination for
example, your approximate position, your time and etc
- star finder - identifying the stars before star observation
- using of sight reduction table for marine navigation
- calculation the position line
- plotting the position line on chart or on separate paper
- determining the position
- sun, polaris, distance from known shore object
- some tricks and hints

please note, this is NOT a preparation for a yacht master examination, but just shearing my knowledge of position fixing using the sextant!
after this one, you will be able to fix your position at open sea using the stars!

of course, this will be not free of charge - everyone may contribute, what he like, when he like and where he like, without obligation - the choice is yours ! :)

i need some preparation in advance as one things is to know, how to do the things and completely different is, how to show the others, what you know !

please let me know if you think that this is workable, is someone interested and any suggestions are welcome

thanks and wish you a nice day
regards



www.neatcss.com

I remember hearing of a chap who did Astro courses on the cross-channel ferry run - you took your sextant along and he talked you through using it in anger under controlled conditions as it were. Don't know if they're still going or not...
 
Y'know, it's not so much the enshrining of astro and the sanctity of the sextant that I'd like to see. It is, rather, the re-establishment and support for the fundamental truth - that, on the water, we should expect, and be expected, to be self-reliant.

If the primary halyard abrades through, we rig up something else. If there's a leaky hull fitting, we stop it. If one means of providing navigational information goes 'tits-up' for whatever reason, we use something else.

'Reversionary techniques'..... or "What do we do if....?"

An encouragement, please, - from the RYA and other bodies that set themselves up over the rest of us - that the proper and respected way to go about our business on the water is to deal with the inconveniences, the problems that occur, the equipment failures, quietly, effectively and without creating a fuss.

I'm quite confident I can find the coast of France - day or night - from either end of the Isle of Wight, without GPS, AIS, TSS or SOS. The Romans managed it, The Phoenicians managed it. The mediaeval Dutch managed it. Only the Spanish seemed to have had some trouble. :D

Cross the Atlantic from Portugal? Easy! Take a couple of carracks, some pickled fish ( bacalao ), plenty of dried bread and wine, then go as far downwind as the Canary Island fishermen do, then just keep going. We'd surely rock up somewhere with a good band, good rum, and an interesting way with chillies and chicken. Simples!

As long as we can keep the ocean on the outside, the crew on the inside, move it somehow and steer it, we don't have a crisis on a boat. All the rest of the stuff is just pandering to paranoia. Yes? No?

:)

This "hang loose, keep cool" affectation is just the sort of thing that will get one into trouble sooner or later, and when the sh*t does hit the fan we suddenly become aware that casualness, whether it be navigation or maintenance, doesnt cut the mustard (whatever that means).

But it's a very infectious approach and one that I've certainly been guilty of. Indeed still am guilty - it's years since I practised MOB under sail.

There are lots of emergencies that can occurr at sea - perhaps emergency should be better defined as a problem that for any reason you personally cant cope with and brings imminent risk to life. What is a minor problem for a diesel mechanic can be an emergency for an impractical sailing beginner who doesnt know an injector from an alternator. And there are lots of such people about.

So I dont think some of the rather pious comments that posters have made about the sextant are fair. I have had DS candidates who could not do the rule of twelfths unless the tides were in feet - just how well would they cope with a sextant? Or are the posters saying that only people with detailed practical knowledge of everything from astro to mechanics to first aid etc should be allowed in a boat?
 
Re Wotayottie

It's a big ocean folks!

Here are just some of the things that have 'occurred' whilst sailing along-and I really haven't done a huge ammount of miles compared to some very modest peeps reading here, I suspect.

Whether people should be encouraged to have 'fix-it strategies'' or 'get-a-radio and get-a-bloke-in-to-fix-it' ability is I suppose a matter of personal choice ( and bank balance,mebbe?). Myself I like to stack up as many technical odds on my side before heading off armed with little more than a paper qualification and some radios(OK I exaggerate, of course, but the point is that 'Stuff' does happen, whether you like it or not)..

Note that all of the following incidents were dealt with at the time (ie we carried on, in control) without recourse to outside help, Seastart, Coastguard, RNLI, ship diverts etc..

Above all, Don't Panic ( Mr Manwaring, Sir).

Engine failure-loads and loads, almost always fixable on board.

Charging failures.

Electronics failures.

Lights failure, singular and complete.

Running aground at top of springs.

Running aground at t.o.s. whilst attempting to program GPS-Naughty

Making wrong landfall due to incompetence with sextant ( slow learner)

Leaks

Leak in inaccessible part of boat (VERY NAUGHTY installation of transducer)

Loss of cooking

Loss of sails

Loss of standing rigging,

Loss of halliards, sheets through chaff, stupidity, negligence.

Failure of blocks under load

Anchoring inadverently by the prop to a fishing bouy

Anchor stuck under a rock in a tideway

etc etc

I am clearly a slow learner, but I am learning, and learning to use the resources that we have had on board and in our heads...
 
"....is just the sort of thing that will get one into trouble sooner or later"

Yep. Been there. Done that. Been getting into trubbl all my born days. Been getting back out of it, too.... :)

A gentleman ought to show his breeding when encountering the occasional momentary 'unexpected' - such as a tribe of hostile fuzzy-wuzzies, an angry foreign official with a gun, a Final Demand from those impertinent HMRC people, a stranding on an uncharted reef right opposite one's Yacht Club - and take pains to avoid alarming the mehm'sahibs.

One is counselled, in times of contretemps, to stride one's foredeck manfully, stare at the far horizon as if seeking inspiration or the arrival of one of those new FAB things, while puffing one's pipe and simultaneously tapping one's sea-breeches with one's Regimental swagger stick. Fix waverers firmly in the eye, issue confident but incomprehensible instructions such as "Sway up yer foretop spanker fast!" and "Meet her on the rise! Ease her on the fall!", and always, always project the unmistakeable air of a born leader. Unless, of course, you can think of something useful to do.:)

They don't do that stuff on RYA courses any more..... :D
 
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