Self draining cockpits. Who needs ‘em?

[Kukri]

Forgetting the pros and cons, I was extremely grateful that Khamsin's cockpit did(does) have self-draining.
In 2016 on the final approaches to Dover from the west I was pooped in very short, steep high seas, which filled the cockpit - not too much of a problem I suppose, but on departing Eastbourne earlier that day I had been caught by the mainsheet in an accidental gybe. The result was two broken ribs in my back and after a long day at the helm I would not have been able to bail-out the cockpit.

I hate Dover. I’ve hated it since my first call there, forty years ago. It’s not the place, it’s not the people, it’s the western entrance. It’s evil.

 

[Sandy]

Not sure where I am going with this, but I'm interested to hear other views.

Do you like wet feet?

 

[Sandy]

I hate Dover. I’ve hated it since my first call there, forty years ago. It’s not the place, it’s not the people, it’s the western entrance. It’s evil.

I visited for the first time at the beginning of September, after passing it on passage twice before, port control were exceptionally helpful and the marina sheltered. Sadly, the beer in the local pub was rubbish and it was very sad to see that the European Union Funded redevelopment of the area had stopped, I wonder why.

 

[johnalison]

The Western entrance at Dover is the worst I know, even worse than Boulogne. I have done it in a 6+ in the dark, and although not actually frightening, the motion of the boat for half a minute or so was enough to induce some risk of loss of control or injury, and great care needed to be taken. But I was younger then. At other times, there's nothing to it.

 

[GNS]

The Western entrance at Dover is the worst I know, even worse than Boulogne. I have done it in a 6+ in the dark, and although not actually frightening, the motion of the boat for half a minute or so was enough to induce some risk of loss of control or injury, and great care needed to be taken. But I was younger then. At other times, there's nothing to it.

 

[GNS]

Apologies JA, I made a hash of posting, please ignore my reply.

Isn't the trade off between self draining and depth of cockpit, especially on smaller yachts? I used to have a deep cockpit which drained to the bilge which felt secure in tough conditions and drained the weight down below if swamped (it never happened). Of course this would have been rather unsatisfactory were it filled repeatedly but the rest of the time it felt safer. I now have a self drainer but it's shallower and more exposed. I tell myself it's safer, but is it really?

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Sailing round the North coast of Bermuda ,with a short run under bare poles,we were side swiped by a large wave that half filled the cockpit.
With Only one wash board in above the bridge deck ,I lent forward to shut the hatch and fortunately provided a bit of a cork in a bottle effect to prevent to much getting below.
.The reassuring gurgle as the 12” of water ran away ,was pretty rapid .We were then listening to curious tapping noise for some minutes,which turned out to be a flying fish caught under the grating.

 

[Sandy]

The Western entrance at Dover is the worst I know, even worse than Boulogne. I have done it in a 6+ in the dark, and although not actually frightening, the motion of the boat for half a minute or so was enough to induce some risk of loss of control or injury, and great care needed to be taken. But I was younger then. At other times, there's nothing to it.

I found Lowestoft far more of a challenge than Dover. Going in at 0100 hours with a 2 knot tide across the much narrower entrance was interesting as we ferry glided at 45°.

 

[penfold]

Apologies JA, I made a hash of posting, please ignore my reply.

Isn't the trade off between self draining and depth of cockpit, especially on smaller yachts? I used to have a deep cockpit which drained to the bilge which felt secure in tough conditions and drained the weight down below if swamped (it never happened). Of course this would have been rather unsatisfactory were it filled repeatedly but the rest of the time it felt safer. I now have a self drainer but it's shallower and more exposed. I tell myself it's safer, but is it really?

That is the trade-off on smaller older designs; the Contessa 26 cockpit floor is pretty close to the WL and the one I sailed had small drains into the bilge which were accompanied with domestic bath plugs on string and a 2" drain in the aft bulkhead about 3-4" above the cockpit floor which self-drained. Raising the cockpit floor 4" might need the seats raised also and arguably the coaming too to avoid backache and other ergonomic unpleasantness. The traditional answer was often to make the footwell very small in area to limit the volume and weight of water to drain into and then pump out of the bilge.

 

[johnalison]

I found Lowestoft far more of a challenge than Dover. Going in at 0100 hours with a 2 knot tide across the much narrower entrance was interesting as we ferry glided at 45°.

If you want a cross-tide challenge, Vlieland can provide it with a tiny entrance, but the challenge of Dover west is the area of wave reflection off the mole in westerly seas. The combination of swell and standing waves can be alarming.

 

[Kukri]

If you want a cross-tide challenge, Vlieland can provide it with a tiny entrance, but the challenge of Dover west is the area of wave reflection off the mole in westerly seas. The combination of swell and standing waves can be alarming.

Yes; that is what I mean.

 

[Old Thady]

Incidentally I always rig a cockpit cover and leave the drains closed when leaving the boat.

This may be a stupid question but why you leave the drains closed?

 

[Gary Fox]

This may be a stupid question but why you leave the drains closed?

I was also wondering the same thing. I can't see a good reason and mine are always open. (With softwood bungs secured nearby of course).
Some people feel that closing cocks reduces flooding risk, as if a reinforced pipe and twin jubilee clips could suddenly fail or fall off.
(The same mistake is sometimes made with engine seacocks, which must please the Jabsco impellor manufacturers when the inevitable happens.)
But I'm sure Kukri has his reasons.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Further to my post about Dover may I take the liberty of including an account told to me by folk moored next to whom I met in Dover that evening:-

“We were approaching from the east when we saw your (sic) boat coming up-channel. There was a horrible sea running and as the boat crested the wave-tops we could see daylight under the bow and stern – as if only the keel was in the water. Then the next second the boat was swallowed into the trough, pitching forwards at a crazy angle, with just the mast above the spreaders visible.

After a fearsome wallow and heel the boat climbed out of the trough, and the whole process repeated. We have never seen a boat rolling so far or so wildly. This went on for so long we wondered how the crew could stand it.”

That crew, myself, having been pooped and with two broken ribs. Ouch!

 

[johnalison]

This was us in a 26' Mystere following friends off Ostend. Our electronic log read up to 10kn under working jib and yet we never took a drop aboard, though our companions in a centre-cockpit Moody 33 shipped water several times. You can just see the folded Avon on our coachroof. There is something about some boats and some seas that seems to make it happen. I like to think that there may be some skill in avoiding it too, perhaps by following a steady course.

 

[adwuk]

Very glad of a self-draining cockpit. The 2m of rainfall we get a year would sink our boat easily!

 

[Blueboatman]

Anything that keeps the water out of the cabin is good
Done well, doors on the companionway , or hinged flaps, can be slammed shut a lot quicker than finding fumbling and inserting a bunch of tapered companionway boards…

Some of those older wooden boats along with non self draining cockpits had poorly secured internal trimming ballast too! Ooer

 

[Blueboatman]

Kukri,
That photo of your last boat is just about perfect, to me .
Btw ?

 

[Kukri]

This may be a stupid question but why you leave the drains closed?

I was also wondering the same thing. I can't see a good reason and mine are always open. (With softwood bungs secured nearby of course).
Some people feel that closing cocks reduces flooding risk, as if a reinforced pipe and twin jubilee clips could suddenly fail or fall off.
(The same mistake is sometimes made with engine seacocks, which must please the Jabsco impellor manufacturers when the inevitable happens.)
But I'm sure Kukri has his reasons.

Because why do you have a seacock on them?

I was brought up that way, and what was good enough for Eric Hiscock and Adlard Coles is good enough for me.

OK, two silly stories:



After I bought this boat I finally located and, after a struggle, closed, her cockpit drain seacocks. Her previous owner, for 33 years, said he had never known they were there! For the next 29 years they were exercised more regularly! ?


Her designer, William Blake, and her builder, Claude Whisstock, had such strong views that she has neither washboards nor doors in the companionway - you climb up and over the coaming.)

Silly story #2:

When I bought this boat I was told to leave the engine cooling water intake seacock open:



I asked Volspec to service the engine and they said “sorry, we can’t change the impeller as the intake seacock is frozen open”.

Call it a draw?

 

[Kukri]

Kukri,
That photo of your last boat is just about perfect, to me .
Btw ?

I didn’t take it; Robert Simper did, as we passed him in an East Coast Old Gaffers’ Race in, iirc, 1987

She is a truly lovely boat. I fell in love at first sight when I saw her on her mooring off Waldringfield in 1971. I bought her in 1984. She is in extremely good hands and in fact she is the centrefold in the RYS’ bicentennial album! (She’s finally being kept in the manner she always wanted to be accustomed to!) ?