Seagull remorse - does it exist?

[Chrusty 1]

Let me guess the punchline...

...you've been fingering dykes ever since?

 

[Greenheart]

I think a lot of people have beer goggle syndrome when it comes to iron sh*tehawks.

Beer-goggles and Sh*tehawks? Are we at risk of another digression, here?

 

[TrueBlue]

There is a closer connection with Stuart Turner engines than you think. I was partly responsible for the SD110 - I like to think for the bit that worked, that is the idea not the execution! The first iteration was intended to be a replacement for the ST 1.5hp beloved of the launch owners in the "Parkstone set" in Poole who kept their yachts on the Wych channel moorings before the days of the yacht havens.

From there it grew aspirations to be a low cost inboard for small yachts such as the Coribee (which I guess is what blueboatman had). However his description of how to get it (hopefully) to work came about because there was no money to develop the features I originally proposed which would have made it a good engine - particularly when the later powerhead became available.

My redundancy money from Seagull (not connected with the SD110!) bought me a boat with a Stuart Turner 8ME which I kept (the engine, still have the boat) for nearly 10 years. Similar skills needed to get it to work, but I found conversion to catholisism necessary and reciting the catechism while on my knees helped!

It was worth me making a comment then - adds to history and interest. It was intended as a throwaway line. There used to be an enthusiast exhibiiting rebuilt S-Ys at the Thames Trad boat rally and the acres of polished brass always looked very smart; more so when installed in a Chentleman's Launch. As do Gardners and Kelvins when in installed in umm- narrowboats.

 

[doug748]

Like most boaters of a certain age I have one in the shed. It is an unusual, late, longshaft 3hp effort with neutral and recoil starting. Still looks a bit new, if that is not a daft thing to say about a twenty year old engine.

I dig it out now and again and it never fails. Last year I used it in anger though, and it don't half use a lot of fuel compared to the Tohatsu.

 

[Chrusty 1]

Beer-goggles and Sh*tehawks? Are we at risk of another digression, here?

It's Iron Sh*tehawks, and no, the last time you lead me on a digression it just got to transcendental and strange for me to cope with......In short Sir, I admit defeat and retire gracefully from the field.

 

[dylanwinter]

here we go

You mention 'recycled material' as if that was a good thing ...

Re-cycling of any material is energy intensive, and creates it's own pollution in the various processes it uses. At best, re-cycling is but a band-aid to be used until a better solution is found - but it has become a quasi-religion for those of limited vision, and as long as they continue to worship at the altar of re-cycling, then they will be able to carry-on with a guilt-free polluting lifestyle.

Better by far not to need any re-cycling - and that's what the Seagull mindset is all about. But unfortunately, the small quantities of pollution from a Seagull are visible - and that makes them an easy target for those who only react to what they can see - but do bear in mind that pollution from a Seagull is fully biodegradable.

"But they burn oil" I so often hear people say, and yes they do ... along with the countless millions of diesel engines churning out their oil-based fumes hour after hour, day after day, all over the world. The only difference being that the Seagull's emissions are visible, and offend those who have taken up this absurdly biased environmentally tokenistic hue and cry.

Yes, by all means ban the Seagull, then you can go on crapping all over the world without any guilt. Bought any new electronics recently ? What's the environmental story there then ? Washed any man-made fibres recently ? Only now is it coming to light that thousands of tiny micro-fibres are released from each garment during the washing process, and these are entering the marine food chain at it's lowest level ... and these are NOT bio-degradable - now there's something to really worry about.

Yes - by all means gaze down into the outboard's test tank and get yourself all excited by the scum - better then to not look into your wheelie bin, or those of your neighbours, and most certainly don't ever look at the waste water coming out of your washing machine ... for there you'll find real causes for concern.

Still - criticising Seagulls always makes for good press, and if you're a journalist, that's your real target after all - getting yourself into print.

so to summarise the points above

using seagull and spraying visible pollution into creeks, harbours, estuaries, lakes and broads is alright because

a/recycling is a bad thing

b/electronics are a bad thing

c/washing clothes is a bad tning

d/anything a journalist says cannot be true

Dylan

 

[yellowspinnaker]

That's a bizarre interpretation of what Electrosys posted!

 

[interloper]

I have a circa 1960 Seagull outboard that I had been considering rehabilitating. This thread brought back memories of every other 2-stroke outboard that I've owned, which have ranged from a 3 HP Tohatsu to a 250 HP Mercury. All of them have created an oil sheen on the water. My present boat has a 4-stroke, and I will never go back to a 2-stroke for a variety of reasons that include noise, vibration, fuel consumption, smell, and pollution. The only disadvantage the 4-strokes have is weight.

I am told that the newer 2-stroke Direct Fuel Injection (DFI) engines sold in the United States by Mercury and Evinrude (Bombardier) are a lot better than older 2-strokes in terms of pollution and fuel consumption, but they are still noisy. Mercury is steadily expanding their 4-stroke line. I expect the 2-strokes will gradually disappear from the market.

 

[lenten]

hi dylan---with respect you are making a lot of fuss over what is in worldwide pollution terms is a miniscule amount of pollution----in the latest posts you will find someone asking what 50 foot --3/4 of a mile a gallon boat he should buy----if you are really concerned about the planet perhaps a bigger and better target for you----regards lenten

 

[electrosys]

That's a bizarre interpretation of what Electrosys posted!

Well, it's just the kind of response to be expected when someone doesn't have a very sound argument underpinning their agenda.

One only needs to look at the countless thousands of barrels of oil extracted from production oilfields all over the world every single day - and what do you think is going to happen to all that oil ? With a relatively small exception, it is all going to be burnt.

Some will be refined into various grades of fuel before it is burnt; some will be turned into greases, tars and similar, where it will be 'burnt' far more slowly - becoming gradually oxidised within the earth's atmosphere. Some will be converted into plastics, where it's energy will be held for a while - but at some time in the future, it too will become oxidised.

The only exception to this is where scientists have been clever (but not very wise), by creating oil-based products which, by means of their chemical structure, cannot be oxidised under normal conditions, and cannot be decomposed by biological organisms - and it is this relatively small fraction (in percentage terms) which can be seen littering our beaches and our sea floors.

I simply cannot understand why Dylan has developed such an agenda about Seagull outboards which, like all engines do pollute - but when compared with the long-lasting pollution from stabilised plastics, pales into insignificance.

So early Seagulls burn oil at 10:1 - so what ? Diesel engines burn oil at 1:1 , and I don't see too many protests about that. Seagulls produce blue smoke - yes, you can see it - but just like anchoring down at Studland, it really isn't doing any significant harm.

There are greater, far greater issues to be addressed in our ever increasingly polluted world - and Seagulls really ain't one of 'em.

 

[dylanwinter]

same arguement

hi dylan---with respect you are making a lot of fuss over what is in worldwide pollution terms is a miniscule amount of pollution----in the latest posts you will find someone asking what 50 foot --3/4 of a mile a gallon boat he should buy----if you are really concerned about the planet perhaps a bigger and better target for you----regards lenten

that is such a classic arguement for carrying one doing what you are doing

"leave me alone

don't worry about what I do

worry about what all those other people over there are doing"

my bit of paper thrown down on the street is as nothing compared to the paper all those other people throw down

my dog's mess in the street is irrelevant compared to all the other dog's stuff

I remember at school we were having a discussion about war and killing people

one chap said that killing people was not a bad thing because lions do it

it is a very hard arguement to counter

but it is about personal responsibilty and your own priorities

we all draw our own lines


the ;point about a seagull is that it doesnot burn all the oil - it is a two stroke engine and offers a very incomplete burn

the unburned oil is sprayed out behind the engine. It is not about global warming and burning oil - it about not burning oil

and spraying it into the water

it is about higly localised pollution

I know it is small amount of oil - but it it being discharged in the place where it does the maximum amount of harm

right back to the beginning - that oil scum drifting up the ria in Devon and the oil left in that dyke on the broads was a real eye opener for me. I think it was a real hazard to local fauna and flora

for some people it is of no consequence at all

they care not a jot

it was a geniune question to see if many sailors had decided to leave their seagulls in the garage for ethical reasons


and yes....

I came on the receiving end of the ire I expected

- the bit about saying stuff just so that I could get it into print is a pretty fascile arguement

no probs though.... my back is broad

Dylan

 

[yellowspinnaker]

I suspect that this problem of oil being sprayed out of a Seagull is rather overstated. Indeed it may happen more if people try to run their Seagulls on a smaller ratio without changing jets/needles - that would make the mixture too rich and you may indeed get a little oil left unburnt.

 

[dylanwinter]

it is the nature of the best

I suspect that this problem of oil being sprayed out of a Seagull is rather overstated. Indeed it may happen more if people try to run their Seagulls on a smaller ratio without changing jets/needles - that would make the mixture too rich and you may indeed get a little oil left unburnt.

the two stroke engine always emits unburned oil

it has to

the cylinder is never completely purged

it is the nature of the beast

take a look on the web

you cannot get a clean burn

http://www.unep.org/transport/pcfv/PDF/Pollution2-StrokeEngines.pdf

http://www.deepscience.com/articles/engines.html

compared to a comparable sized four stroke it is a dirty thing to run

out at sea perhaps the impact of the unburned oil is small

in restricted waters it is not nice stuff to spray around

however, for some people that is clearly not of any significance

all the stuff above about windfarms, petrol engines on cars, perfidious journalists, washing clothes is interesting but of little relevance

two stroke engines are a point source of pollution

it is the local crabs, fish birds and wading children that are exposed to the oily water that I feel sorry for

Dylan

 

[[2068]]

Best place for a Seagull is permanently bolted to the pushpit.
Detail the fuel tank, polish the block, and put on a propellor with un-knackered blades with a new pin.

Then, get out the Torqeedo when you actually need some extra thrust, or power the tender.

 

[yellowspinnaker]

I don't need to look at the web. I merely pointed out that the problem is rather overstated, and attempts to lower the amount of oil in the mix can make it worse.

You do make it sound as though there's a fire hose amount of oil gushing out all the time over the children paddling nearby.

I probably get through maybe half a pint of biodegradeable 2 stroke oil in my Seagull every year, and the majority of that gets burnt. I hardly think a couple of fluid ounces amounts to environmental armageddon compared, as I posted earlier, to the environmental manufacturing costs of a brand new outboard, be it 4 stroke, 2 stroke, steam or electric.

 

[lenten]

hi again dylan--just by being alive in this world we are all polluting it to some degree---but i guess the worse pollution is what someone else is doing and we ---with a lot of self righteous indignation are not----regards lenten

 

[Chrusty 1]

I don't need to look at the web. I merely pointed out that the problem is rather overstated, and attempts to lower the amount of oil in the mix can make it worse.

You do make it sound as though there's a fire hose amount of oil gushing out all the time over the children paddling nearby.

I probably get through maybe half a pint of biodegradeable 2 stroke oil in my Seagull every year, and the majority of that gets burnt. I hardly think a couple of fluid ounces amounts to environmental armageddon compared, as I posted earlier, to the environmental manufacturing costs of a brand new outboard, be it 4 stroke, 2 stroke, steam or electric.

There's them beer goggles again.............have you got beer ear defenders to go with them?

There's none so blind as will not see, and none so deaf as will not hear, but in the case of the iron sh*tehawk enthusiast, we shouldn't be too unkind, what with all the smoke and the awful cacophony they make, the poor deluded dears can't see or hear a damn thing!

 

[Niander]

Ive got a question about all this oil from 4 stroke engines that gets changed on a regular basis all over the world.
from cars ,motorbikes ,big ships,our little ships,trucks etc etc
now thats a hell of a lot of old used oil!
now what happens to it?

 

[Chrusty 1]

Ive got a question about all this oil from 4 stroke engines that gets changed on a regular basis all over the world.
from cars ,motorbikes ,big ships,our little ships,trucks etc etc
now thats a hell of a lot of old used oil!
now what happens to it?

I know what happens to mine, it gets filtered and chucked in my mates old beeza motorbike, he has any used motor oil from anybody, as well as filtering it he does something else to it, additives or something?

 

[dylanwinter]

re-cycled

Ive got a question about all this oil from 4 stroke engines that gets changed on a regular basis all over the world.
from cars ,motorbikes ,big ships,our little ships,trucks etc etc
now thats a hell of a lot of old used oil!
now what happens to it?

my outboard gets taken home, the oil goes into a five gallon container where it joins the oil from the four stroke moweer and the car and once that is full it gets taken to the local dump where it goes in the tank for recycling. Are you suggesting that people who don't use seagulls dispose of the sump oil in some other way? Pouring it into the nearest watercourse perhaps? That would be a shame if they did that.




Dylan