Saving Money

[JumbleDuck]

Ok Question - If everyone's chucking all their chain over the side, instead of measuring out what they teach you say on a day skipper course (which is all I have to go on), how will I know what is a safe distance to anchor from my nearest neighbour who's scope could be more than required?

I think that the chuckers are referring to the method of deployment, not the amount. Traditionally you lowered the anchor till you felt it hit the bottom, then let out a bit more chain, then dug it in, then let out whatever you decided you'd need as a maximum. Or you can just throw the lot over and trust that it will all sort itself out. Either way you end up with the same amount of chain There are a few people around who like to let out every last foot of the stuff in their lockers regardless of conditions. There's not much you can do about them except watch where they swing and, if you arrived after they did, leave if they get uncomfortably close. Unless you have scuba gear and limpet mines on board. Very useful things, limpet mines.

 

[timmygobang]

I think that the chuckers are referring to the method of deployment, not the amount. Traditionally you lowered the anchor till you felt it hit the bottom, then let out a bit more chain, then dug it in, then let out whatever you decided you'd need as a maximum. Or you can just throw the lot over and trust that it will all sort itself out. Either way you end up with the same amount of chain There are a few people around who like to let out every last foot of the stuff in their lockers regardless of conditions. There's not much you can do about them except watch where they swing and, if you arrived after they did, leave if they get uncomfortably close. Unless you have scuba gear and limpet mines on board. Very useful things, limpet mines.

Ah ok, so it's a case of getting your G&T out and casually surveying the surroundings as the wifey rows around the boat dropping the mines, got it Jeez there's so much to learn!!

 

[duncan99210]

We spend the summer on the hook and the CQR we had was an irritating thing to deal with. Only in the best of holding would it bite first time, often choosing to loll over on one side and refusing to dig in. In strong winds it demonstrated an excellent ability to leave a deep furrow in the sea bed and flatly refused to reset if tripped by a change in wind direction or some numpty hauling it out with their anchor. We now have a (none bending I hope) Rocna which sets easily in just about all bottoms (doesn't like thick weed, but what anchor does?) and resets if tripped.

OK, I accept that if you only anchor now and then a CQR is an acceptable bit of kit but if you really need to rely on your anchor most of the time, then I would suggest getting something that will do what it says on the tin is well worth the spend.

 

[Seajet]

So basically every 2 metres (or 1.83 m)

Since my charts + sounders is in metres I can't fathom using anything else for marking.

Funnily enough I go by the real depth rather than a chart drawn by Eric of Arimethea, when the warp goes slack that's the depth, and a known depthsounder - one of the advantages of a lift keel in a soft mud harbour.

If it's somewhere I am less sure of I'll look up the almanac for tidal curves as well but still go by eye rather than charts, always looking up their date !

 

[stevepick]

Coming back to the OP, yes anchoring saves money but sailing where I do ( the Hebrides) with mooring buoys few and pontoons fewer still , anchoring is my majority pass time when we are out and about. So we can't really avoid "saving" money. With so many natural, uncrowded anchorages it is a complete joy to park wherever you want and have various secluded bays to yourself for the majority of a holiday.

Having said that I went out and bought a shiny Rocna 7 years ago with our then new (to us) boat , slept over 300 nights on it very soundly so it was costing around £1 per night - during that time my heart went out to many poor sods, especially a single hander in canna who took 6 goes to get his cqr to connect , pulling up the failed set by hand each time. I had anchored with friends on their boats with cqr's and seen several drags. In the time we have had our own boat I have seen dozens of times when a cqr has failed to set and 4 cqr drags whilst we slept soundly as logs though horrible weather /wind changes. I don't agree with the idea that the inadequacies of the cqr have not been discovered, wander along any scotland west coast marina pontoon , and there is an increasing number of new-gen anchors. On a previous berth with 10 pontoon nieghbours who were out almost every weekend there was one cqr, the rest were new-gen delta, manson,spade or rocna .

reason for edit - forgot one of our neighbours had a spade !

 

[mainsail1]

No mention of eel grass yet. Just endless chucking of anchors here and there.

 

[flaming]

I find all these references to chucking very distressing.

Surely these days everyone has a nice shiny windlass with which to lower that funny shaped metal thing to the bottom at the mere touch of a button?

Honestly, next people will be saying they don't have an ice maker on board for the Gin!

 

[JomsViking]

It was slightly tongue in cheek - I go by real depth as well, but for what you let out after that it's nice to be able to Count
I'm really intrigued by bilge and lift keelers, and if I was to buy another boat would seriously consider one, but we're not too used to those around here.

Funnily enough I go by the real depth rather than a chart drawn by Eric of Arimethea, when the warp goes slack that's the depth, and a known depthsounder - one of the advantages of a lift keel in a soft mud harbour.

If it's somewhere I am less sure of I'll look up the almanac for tidal curves as well but still go by eye rather than charts, always looking up their date !

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't agree with the idea that the inadequacies of the cqr have not been discovered, wander along any scotland west coast marina pontoon , and there is an increasing number of new-gen anchors

Well yes, but in Scotland marina dwellers are hardly typical boat owners. Lots of Rocnas at Ardfern, but then that's the Scottish dealer.

 

[Slow_boat]

I had a CQR for years on the East coast and it was fine in the Essex mud. So was the Bruce I got with the new boat but I suppose just about anything works in Essex mud! I just figured that as I was going further afield I would encounter deeper water and a variety of sea bottoms, so wanted a more general purpose anchor and may as well get a new generation one. I settled on a Kobra partly on test results, partly on price and partly because it fits on my bow roller. Chain is marked every 5 meters with loose cable ties. I figure I never let out less than 10 meters and after that a couple of meters either way won't hurt. I usually put on a nylon strop of about 2 meters so probably have two or three meters extra out anyway.

I use the 'rule of twelfths' as opposed to tidal curves to the nearest centimeter,and keep an eye on the sounder to check when anchored, too. Sorry to all pedants and yachtmaster examiners.

It's worked fine so far but an electric winch would be nice!

 

[Wansworth]

I find all these references to chucking very distressing.

Surely these days everyone has a nice shiny windlass with which to lower that funny shaped metal thing to the bottom at the mere touch of a button?

Honestly, next people will be saying they don't have an ice maker on board for the Gin!

I witnessed that in Spain.After exhausting toil with a cqr that refused to bite in came a Spanish yacht that dropped the anchour remotely from the cockpit.......didnt like it so wound it in again from the cockpit,anchoured again didnt like it hauled it in
and buggered off.He wore his blazer and tie though out the operation.

 

[lustyd]

If CQRs were as terrible as you think, wouldn't that have been discovered over the past fifty years? Wouldn't everyone have stopped using them?

I assume you've not been listening. The faults of the CQR are very well documented all over the place. Not just by people talking directly about the way they flop about on the seabed but also by the ones who are defending them yet ironically suggesting that going up a size, putting out more chain, or using heavier chain might help. Also by those that suggest you let it down gently, slowly reverse then gradually let out the chain. These are all subtle and not so subtle ways of saying that the CQR is in fact a ****e anchor. Yes is IS possible to anchor with a CQR but no it isn't anywhere close to being as reliable as a more modern design. Even the same identical thing with the hinge welded is a vast improvement but an appropriate size CQR for the boat would still risk dragging at the turn of the tide regardless how carefully you set it first time and so yes, most people that regularly anchor have been busy replacing them as funds allow.
No, not everyone has stopped using them, but just a cursory read of these forums or even this thread will show that lots of people have and they are happier for it.

Go on, this is the bit where you say an anchor isn't really necessary at all due to the magical, mysical properties of catenary

 

[jac]

I use the 'rule of twelfths' as opposed to tidal curves to the nearest centimeter,and keep an eye on the sounder to check when anchored, too. Sorry to all pedants and yachtmaster examiners.

It's worked fine so far but an electric winch would be nice!

Amazed that people use tidal curves to any real accuracy when it doesn't take long to realise that predictions are just that. In Solent, VTS announce how far from predicted height the tide is and 6inch error is fairly common. Also many echo sounder only display to 1 decimal place and are calibrated by the user so maybe another 6inch error there. Add in some small waves or a bottom that doesn't give a clean return echo ..........

 

[JumbleDuck]

I assume you've not been listening.

If you could perhaps explain which bit of my statement that "I have no doubt that a Spade, Bugel or Manson works better than a CQR, but for many of us a CQR works well enough, and that's really what matters." is giving you problems, I'll try to rephrase more clearly.

 

[Seajet]

Amazed that people use tidal curves to any real accuracy when it doesn't take long to realise that predictions are just that. In Solent, VTS announce how far from predicted height the tide is and 6inch error is fairly common. Also many echo sounder only display to 1 decimal place and are calibrated by the user so maybe another 6inch error there. Add in some small waves or a bottom that doesn't give a clean return echo ..........

+1, it's always amused / horrified me to see people calculating predicted depths to a centimetre, life ain't like that !

 

[JumbleDuck]

+1, it's always amused / horrified me to see people calculating predicted depths to a centimetre, life ain't like that !

Remember that chap who wrecked his boat in a winter onshore gale in Kent and wrote afterwards that he'd never been taught that waves could reduce the depth of water available.

If I need to know exactly how deep the water is, I use my echosounder or a gauge. If I need to predict it I use rule of twelfths and a foot for luck.

 

[lustyd]

If you could perhaps explain which bit of my statement that "I have no doubt that a Spade, Bugel or Manson works better than a CQR, but for many of us a CQR works well enough, and that's really what matters." is giving you problems, I'll try to rephrase more clearly.

It was the bit I quoted where you were asking why the problems with CQR hadn't been discovered in a thread full of people explaining just that to you.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It was the bit I quoted where you were asking why the problems with CQR hadn't been discovered in a thread full of people explaining just that to you.

Ah, you mean the bit where I asked why many people still use them if they are so terrible? I thought I'd made that clearer with "for many of us a CQR works well enough, and that's really what matters".

I'm glad you've found an anchor which works for you.

 

[BruceDanforth]

Most people are never going to anchor anyway so it doesn't make any difference what they have.

 

[Slow_boat]

Most people are never going to anchor anyway so it doesn't make any difference what they have.

Which brings us neatly back to the OP;

You can save a lot of money by anchoring, be it with a super-duper latest inflatable anchor or a tyre full of concrete.

Strange how people get so wound up over anchors, of all things.