Sailing Schools

[discoduck]

We are back from our weeks sailing course on the Solent.Proud owners of day Skipper and Competant crew.Not bad for a couple of war babies.But can you beat this for weeks sailing.
Monday, had lunch on Calshot spit,never venture on fallling tide.
Tuesday. Coastal skipper in charge. Decided that dinner on the Old Harry Rocks was better than Poole harbour.
Wednesday. Coastal skipper on exam next day. Turned port onto a BMF in the turning zone off Cowes.Our Instructor then took the helm and avoided big ship as the harbour masters pilot boat saw us off. But on entering Cowes a few minutes later got five blasts for the Cowes ferry.
All ended well into Cowes and found our solutions in the Pub, amongsts bear midriff maidens speaking all sorts of strange tongues.
Our Coastal passed his exam.
That was the week that was

I like spinning cd's


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[starboard]

My thoughts on these RYA bits of paper are that you cannot BUY experiance!! I take it that now your coastal skipper thinks he is competant??? I think not. One thing for sure though is no matter how many years you spend playing with boats you will never stop learning, the saying you learn from your mistakes is very true but how you can be considered competent after a week beggars belief.

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[jonjo]

Do I understand this correctly, the examiner had to urgently take control of the yacht during the exam and the candidate still passed?

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[chriscallender]

Which sailing school? I need somewhere nice and easy to do my coastal skipper /forums/images/icons/wink.gif.

Only joking I doubt or at least hope I would not do anything quite that daft on my coastal skipper exam, maybe I should just get on and do it rather than worrying if I've got enough experience yet (even though on paper I've done a lot more than the RYA minimum)!

Chris

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[Peppermint]

Reredictable

Here we go knocking the paper qualification without being willing to understand the principle behind them.

It's a wonder anyone starts sailing at all.

If it takes a bit of paper earned on a course of instruction to give newcomers a start, well good on it. Better that they start with a seaschool that praises what they can do than sailing with miserable oldsalts who just tell them how useless they are.

Sailing and even navigation are so simple it's suprising chimps don't do it. But all we get from the oldschool is how difficult it is and how much time it takes to learn.

Maybe the new intake of sailors are more open minded and much cleverer.

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[ubuysa]

How else?

I started sailing just 2 years ago. I didn't (and still don't) know anyone with a boat that I could gain experience on. My work takes me away a lot so starting by joining a race crew was not practical. For the same reason I couldn't be sure of being available regularly enough to ask at yacht clubs for people needing inexperienced crew. So what to do???

I decided to follow the RYA scheme to Coastal Skipper, right from comp crew and including all the practical and shorebased courses. SWMBO did the same (but didn't do the Coastal Skipper exam). I treated the exam like a driving test - and told my examiner so - and I passed.

So do I feel I'm now fully competent? No.
Do I feel I'm now as good a sailor as others here? No.

I do believe though that I'm safe and that I understand my (many) limitations. I believe I can go to sea now and not kill myself, my crew, or any of you. I know enough to start to become a competent sailor safely.

I completely agree that bits of paper (of which I now have many) do not make one a sailor, but tell me please, how else would someone in my position have started sailing?

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[poter]

Re: How else?

Exactly, Agree..............

poter

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[starboard]

Reredictable

Old salt maybe but for sure not a miserable one!!! As for "starting with a sea school that praises what they can do!" but of course they would if you fling all thet money at them, I know a local RYA instructor here that has sailed a minimal amount of time and therefore has no experiance!!!!! Come to me any time and I will try to pass on the knowledge that I have attained whilst racing dinghies, sailing offshore, yacht and power boat delivery, Coxwain of RNLI offshore lifeboat and commercial fishing...however I do not hold any RYA instructors ticket,and dont intend to line the pockets of the RYA with money to obtain one. If that means any information I can impart on you is useless well so be it. As for sailing and navigation being simple so it is....and yes chimps could and indeed do do it!!! believe me I have towed many of them home after thier engine has failed and the thought of using a sail to enter harbour was well beyond them!!! As for new sailors being openminded and more clever well maybe RNLI statistics would not agree!!!

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[Peppermint]

Re:As I said Predictable

Your argument is clearly with the RYA but what real alternative does Mr. Tyro have.
Experience is always trotted out either by those who are lucky enough to have enjoyed a varied sailing career, and they're pretty few, or those who have just been pottering about doing the same things, often wrongly for years and years.

I'm sick of hearing it. So you've had to tow in a few beginers. So what? At least they had the bottle to give it a go. Which if they listen to the oldsalts at the outset they have to be pretty brave to even try.

Our sport is still riddled with negative attitudes that discourage people who try to start sailing. Looking down from they're towering expertise and sniping.

The average Joe who takes his RYA course is demonstrating his keeness to do the right thing. He's looking to learn the basics that he can build on and he's demonstrating a responsible attitude. All knowledge in the rapidly expanding sailing scene cannot be handed down like holy writ from father to son or by experienced mariners taking beginers under their wing. Generally RYA courses do what they say on the can and I doubt many successful candidates leave thinking they've been transformed into Francis Drake by the experience.

If you don't like RYA course content or the standard of tuition take it up with the RYA. Don't be predictable and talk down to people who take the courses and are trying to join us sailing.

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[Tekkie]

Reredictable

Stbd, Do please try to be constructive!! To slag off is not really helpful!

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[Mike21]

Re:No experience

>know a local RYA instructor here that has sailed a minimal amount of time and therefore has no experiance!!!!! <
If he's a YM instructor, then that's rubbish
To qualify for Yachtmaster offshore he would have to have at least 2500 seamiles, half of which are tidal + the rest of requirement, ie skippering, night passages etc.
To become a YM instructor he would have demonstrate his knowledge and all aspects of boathandling and his ability to teach.
There will be" old salts "out there who have many more years at sea, but many off then would be incapable of becoming instructors.

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[starboard]

Re:No experience

Exactly...2500 seamiles you say, Now explain to me how you can actually prove that mileage was done and not fudged??? In the short time this person has been sailing I know for sure that is not possible. This takes us back to the original post..How did that candidate obtain thier certificate after such a disastarous week?? Dont get me wrong as concerns the RYA, any help to the novice is of great use, I have sailed most of my life and have enjoyed learning from others, still today I will never stop learning, show me the seaman that know's everything and you will find the person that know's nothing!!I only find over the past few years how so many of these course's and certificates have appeared for those that are willing to pay...I wonder what profit's the RYA make, it is thier interest of course to promote and provide...experiance or not!!!!

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[Mike21]

Re:No experience

I made a mistake on requirements for YM instructors.
You require a minimum of 7000 seamiles and is recommended that they have been instructing with a recognised seaschool for two seasons.
Having passed the YM offshore exam I would take exception to anybody suggesting I would need to fudge the mileage requirement.

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[starboard]

Re:No experience

Never suggested that YOU would, only that in the case I state the required mileage could not have been gained in the time provided. Anyway enough...good sailing and fair winds for the Summer to come.

Paul.

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[whisper]

Re:As I said Predictable

Well said Sir!!

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[jonjo]

Reredictable

Did I trigger this thread by questioning how someone can get a coastal skipper certificate after the examiner had to take urgently control to avoid danger?

I find the prevailing attitude in the postings here strange, most of you seem to be suggesting that coastal skipper certificates should be handed out like attendance badges? If so this devalues the qualification to level of those certificates that 6 year olds receive after participating in a Saturday afternoon painting club, no matter what their artistic ability is.

I look up to those skippers who obtained their Yachtmasters in the last 10 years because I read accounts of what they have to deal with in exam situations thinking I could not cope with the same.

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[Peppermint]

Re:Only partially

Firstly it was the instructor appears to have taken over on the day before the exam. On these courses thats not unusual. Any experienced skipper might take over from a beginer in the circumstances.

The guy is not expected to repeat his folly during the exam though.

Like most exams you just have to do whats asked of you on the day.

Like most exams if you pass it's easy.

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[ubuysa]

Re:Only partially

<font size=1>Like most exams if you pass it's easy.</font size=1>

Well actually my Coastal Skipper exam wasn't easy. In fact, it was the most stresful thing I've done in very many years. The examiner's style seemed to be to ask me to do something for him and, once he'd satified himself I was able to do that, changed the circumstances to see how I reacted. He seemed to want to see how I behaved when things weren't going as I expected (which is fair enough for an exam). It was much more than just a test of my sailing ability and my knowledge (though there was a lot of that) it seemed also to be as much a test of character and attitude.

In the very comprehensive debrief afterwards the examiner took time to explain what I'd done wrong and what I'd done well. We discussed why things had gone wrong and he gave me very good advice and suggestions for improvement. When I told him that the exam was the most stresful thing I'd done recently he told me that "now you will be taking people to sea and they will be depending on you. I have to be sure that they are safe depending on you". Sobering thought.

I completely understand why those with many years of real experience worry that people like me who have little experience but do have RYA tickets still have a great deal to learn. Fair comment. But neither is the RYA exam just an easy day sail with a nice guy followed by a rubber stamp.

Just my opinion....Tony C.


<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[whisper]

Reredictable

I don't think any let alone most, of the replies here, suggest that your "attendance badge " scenario should prevail.
When I got my first humble little boat I thought that it would be in my own interest and that of anyone else in my vicinity to get some basic knowlege. The obvious way to do this, as I didn't know any other people with experience, was to follow the RYA route. This surely is better than doing nothing and is the only obvious route for a responsible newbie to take.

I therefore went through the Day Skipper and Coastal Skipper courses and decided to stop there because I couldn't see any point in me struggling with Astro etc.

I agree that the practical courses may vary in severity depending on the examiner involved. I, for example, am not sure if I would have given myself a pass on some of the C.S. sailing manouvres. I was safe but not very adept - being a motor boat person at heart./forums/images/icons/blush.gif

I'm absolutely certain that I'm less of a liability, having done the courses, but am accutely aware that I only know a little about a large subject. I don't think that denigrating the action that I chose to take is fair on the vast majority of people who do likewise. Of course there will always be the exceptions who think that a Day Skipper's ticket means they are now fully competent, but the same goes for prats in lots of other fields.
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
John.

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[irishmark]

Reredictable

just read the entire tread and find it very intresting..I am in exactly the same situation as whoever it was that said they only started sailind relitivly recently. Only two years ago to be exact. Sinc ethen i have spend ever single holiday etc trying to improve wheither it be rya courses or first aid courses or going on sailing holidays or simply going out for a sail with friends. THe one thing that i'm sure off is that i have huge gaps in my capabilities however i since i realise this i can adapt and try and gain experiences that will help me to improve. THe dificulty i have is that its very hard for me to gain experience in a reasonable systematic way (not trying to run before i can walk) without paying for the pleasure. I find there is only soo much extra i gain each time i go out locally on a fine summers day, however from time to time i find oppertuinities to do something different, crewing on deliveries etc which gives both great fun and some relitive experience. I supose what i'm trying to say is that i want to be as competant as i can be and am doing it the best way i know how...if anyone knows how to do this better i'm all ears



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