Sailing around the Med with a 4.5k budget

[sailaboutvic]

Re: A serious reply!

I have a friend who earns about 8k pa, and owns her own home in the lakes with a (small) mortgage on it. She is a bit of an eco warrior and very frugal, but she has done it for a long time, and shows it is quite possible. So no doubt one could cruise on a small budget. It's whether you would want to or not!

Steve 8K is about 160pw or there about , as I wrote else where thousand of OAP are living on that , some own there own homes so there got no mortgages , others poor once get sub by the government for there rent, rates, even fuel payment when it too cold ,
but that different from cruising on a boat , you could most likely find a hole somewhere to park the boat and just live in it not going any where for 8K pa but I be suprise if it last long .

For a start the days have gone where you can moor up free , yes there still places but mostly you have to pay , again water is no longer free you have to pay for it ,
food is a lot more expenses when moving around , you buyin out of small shops and anywhere there tourist up goes the price more .
Fuel is now gone silly not sure what it is back home but it's can be anywhere around 1.60 to 1.90 a lt .
Again you could find a hinding place on some little island in Greece to stay put in the winter but then your boat got to be set up for that, which cost more money ,
In reality nearly everyone hits the Marina or at less a boat yard ,
a Marina for six months with a very small boat 1.2k if your lucky and a boat yard adding on the haul out about the same you may find somewhere cheaper but once again more and more boat yards won't let you live on the boat and the once that do are charging extra plus water and power in most cases .
Add on maintenance the boat and any repairs over the year.
Insurance and in some countries cruising permits .
Plus safety equipment some government insisting you have now
Your 8K can easily disappeared .
That's without return to see family , maybe collecting medical , traveling fees , going out now and then , putting clothes on your back so on and so on .

I in no doubt you can live on a boat park it somewhere for free and surviving on a small income .Not sure that what people want to do when they say they want to live on a boat , maybe I got it wrong .
what you can't do is cruise explore country's and have some kind of life while living on a boat on the amount some say you can on this and other forums .
You just got to read #34 , that's coming from the horses month , I promise I not made it up .

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Re: A serious reply!

lets look at the cost
Pork chop x2 = =€5 or chicken € 6 pd
vegetables= =4 4€pd
bread = =1.5. 1.5pd
incidentals= = 5. 5pd
wine = 3. 3
water = 2.5. 2.5
this very basic
living on the hook
so you are looking at €175 p week min for two. which works out close to your budget of €4500

 

[steveej]

Re: A serious reply!

not including spares, repairs, general maintenance, insurance, permits, flights home, land excursions, clothes and shoes, hair cuts, diesel, mobile phone, some kind of internet connection (Cafe?) , haul out fees, chocking and shoring, worn out safety gear, mooring fees...................the list goes on.............and on.

I've never done it....but would like to do it, and looking at it as a potential project 20 years from now.

£25k p.a. bare minimum for us. If you cant afford to eat out once in a while and pay for a hire car to see some of the places you are visiting, you just become a floating bum on a rotting boat, never being able to get back on the UK housing ladder.

You only have to look around the average UK marina to realise that most boat owners are dreamers. Very few are sailors. Most boats never leave the dock and are basically floating holiday homes or old men's sheds. Both of which are depreciating assets.

 

[Kelpie]

Re: A serious reply!

Under £8k for a year, which included a Panama transit.

http://impetuoustoo.blogspot.com/2015/02/budget-bonanza.html

Maybe people need to get out of the Med?

 

[GHA]

Re: A serious reply!

£25k p.a. bare minimum for us. If you cant afford to eat out once in a while and pay for a hire car to see some of the places you are visiting, you just become a floating bum on a rotting boat, never being able to get back on the UK housing ladder.

You might, a fair few out there are having a great time on a very lot less than your figures on solid simple well maintained boats.
Shoes??? Think I might have one pair somewhere, ... Mooring fees? land excursions? A dollar or Real will take you into the mountains on a rickety bus with some locals and a few chickens on a big adventure


The list doesn't go on, as the years go by it gets shorter and shorter.

Major health issues are the one big thing which could get you.

Not sure many having drifted around he world for a decade or several would be remotely interested in the UK property ladder, 2 boats having recently ate the anchor spring to mind, one couple settled in Portugal, another in Spain. Heading back to the awful weather and expensive bad food just didn't even get to the options list.

 

[GHA]

Re: A serious reply!

Under £8k for a year, which included a Panama transit.

http://impetuoustoo.blogspot.com/2015/02/budget-bonanza.html

Maybe people need to get out of the Med?

What a great blog!! Ta for the link, lots out there doing it, doubt if many are in the Med..

 

[steveej]

Re: A serious reply!

Under £8k for a year, which included a Panama transit.

http://impetuoustoo.blogspot.com/2015/02/budget-bonanza.html

Maybe people need to get out of the Med?

Yeah, I'm talking about the Med as per the Forum Title.

I'm 37 years old. in 20 years time I'm going to be 57. I have two kids, still have to pay off the mortgage, university to pay for, the grand kids coming along etc. They all like shore time and so does the wife.

There are different ways to skin a cat and we are not millionaires in any way shape or form.

Are you really going to anchor over winter in the med? It's miserable and all the small islands effectivley close down at the end of the season, making provisioning and general life difficult and not much fun.

Venezuela and such places probably a lot different, or take the chance with hurricane season.

Spent enough time sleeping on a portaledge on the side of el capitan to know what true suffering is like and loved it at the time. But I was single then, I am married now and have already realised that to make this work, the gang need to all need to enjoy it too.

Otherwise I wont be going.

 

[Kelpie]

@stevej
You're the same age as me. As you say, different ways to skin the cat. I guess you plan on leaving after the kids have flown the nest; we plan to take ours with us.

To answer your question, no I don't intend to live on the hook over winter in the Med. Nor does the idea of getting a berth for winter appeal at all. Everybody had their own version of the dream, and for us it is to keep on moving, so that probably rules out the Med. I can live with that.

 

[Crisby]

Well, I turned 55 yesterday and a small pension kicked in so next year we are going to give the liveaboard life a go. But budget will probably be nearer 5x 4.5k per year and I’ll still be eating more salad than I’m used to!

Luckily I have a job where experience and therefore age is appreciated, within reason, so if it doesn’t work out financially in a few years we have the option of returning to earn some more. The thought of being on the breadline in a slowly failing boat somewhere would keep me awake at night!!

 

[SV Kittiwake]

Re: A serious reply!

What a great blog!! Ta for the link, lots out there doing it, doubt if many are in the Med..

Being in the Med hasn't cost us any more than being on the Atlantic coast last year. Still around €700 per month for two of us.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: A serious reply!

Under £8k for a year, which included a Panama transit.

http://impetuoustoo.blogspot.com/2015/02/budget-bonanza.html

Maybe people need to get out of the Med?

Good blog page . But that's all it is one page
Maybe you need to read other pages , like when his started motor packed up and need to replace it , or when he had to get all his injectors short , or a fuel pump packed , or when he had to have his engine rebuild and had to import parts , oh forgot a little bit about the 7.7 million rupiah he had to pay in import taxes for parts , did see any of that in his sums .
Or anything to cover the cost of his two very young children.
Don't get me wrong , good on him and her , what I am saying is the £7829 was for just that year , I reackon I could do it for one year too now in 2018 in Med without doubt I could had in 2015 , but that's just one year .
What about all the per years .
This remember me of the MP some years back , some may remember who said people living on the street are not as hard time as they say they where and to prove it he lived on the street for a few weeks or was it just a week , big deal .
As I said we can all write great blog , but what we write and the reality is at time very different .

 

[Kelpie]

Re: A serious reply!

@sailaboutvic yes I have read the entire blog, and follow them on FB too. I know they've had their ups and downs like everyone else. They are in the fortunate position that they can return to the UK to work in reasonably well paid jobs whenever they need to. I don't think it's a case of trying to show how little money you can live on, it's about finding the balance, and they clearly prefer spending less time working and more time afloat even if it means living quite cheaply.

I don't remember any MP doing what you recall, btw, but I do remember Ian Duncan Smith being challenged to live on £53 a week in response to some comments he'd made. Funnily enough he never did it.

 

[sailaboutvic]

First of all you can live on your hook in the winter in the Med you can also keep moving if you want to thought the winter no need to use marinas ,
Andy and Stef Marsh some may know them here but they well know by Many cruisers did it for I think 8 years in the Med .
No need to Go across oceans if you don't want to,
These last few years We only use marinas for three months each winter we on our 8 year now this time round , we could stay out and we have once but I know my partner like most females like to have other people company for a while especially other females .
Some how I think if she never spoken to anyone day in and day out except me , she wouldn't be my partner for very long .
There not like us guy who can lock ourself away with a beer in our hand ( not including myself in that statement ) .
Your wife maybe the 1 in several thousands that don't need other to chat to To have a drink with or to share Christmas Day with others .

To keep on the move your boat need to be well fitted out ,
some one here have written on several times on this subject ( you don't need fridge,generator,water makers, A/C ) well sorry but if you want to keep moving all year round and not use marinas in the winter you do ,
how anyone can say you don't need a fridge is beyond me Especially someone who says he cruise ,
A Gen of some sort is needed panels are great in the summer but winter time unless you have a very large batteries bank which put the theory of cruising on a small boat out of the question .you going to need power at some point .
Water maker, cruising out of season or even in season in these isolated islands will be hard to find and good water harder .
A\C or at less some kind of heating , it get bloody cold in the winter and out of season wet too , all this stuff needs money to keep running one way or another .

Winter marinas are full with liveaboard from all over the world , so why do they come to the Med if it so expense,
If you really want to know the answer catch a flight out to visit one and talk to the people first hand , see what type of boats are being used .
One most common answer to why are they cruising the Med will be , it's too expensive to cruiser in their country and the rules and red tape is unbearable.
Followed by the Med has history interesting and a great cruising area unlike where they come from .
The first year is always the easiest it all new , it's exciting so is the second after that if you don't have the money to live and cover your day to day including unexpected problems it no longer becomes so wonderful .
Just one last thing to take into account , if you have elder parents, maybe grandchildren, of just family you want to visit now no then a flight from Europe is nothing compare with one from the other side of the world . Add that and other travel cost on to that budget.
Edit , I have cruiser with out a generator, water maker , For many many years and managed with no problem but we wasn't on our hook all over the winter and we was in the Med , but now we got them , I keeping them

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: A serious reply!

@sailaboutvic yes I have read the entire blog, and follow them on FB too. I know they've had their ups and downs like everyone else. They are in the fortunate position that they can return to the UK to work in reasonably well paid jobs whenever they need to. I don't think it's a case of trying to show how little money you can live on, it's about finding the balance, and they clearly prefer spending less time working and more time afloat even if it means living quite cheaply.

I don't remember any MP doing what you recall, btw, but I do remember Ian Duncan Smith being challenged to live on £53 a week in response to some comments he'd made. Funnily enough he never did it.

Good to know you also read other parts too ,
It's quite clearly there lots of stuff that wasn't included in the 7.8k ,
amount that most of us would need to included .
But not everyone
there always someone who don't need any comforts at all and happy to live like they did 300 years ago .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: A serious reply!

Being in the Med hasn't cost us any more than being on the Atlantic coast last year. Still around €700 per month for two of us.

Just out of interest, is that the day to day running ( food , fuel , the odd beer out ) or does include over winter Marina fees if you do use marinas , traveling back to your home country if you do , days out , and the odd car hire also any unexpected problems and expenses are also included in that sum ?
I guessing it's just the day to day running stuff ,
If so that's not too far from us for two people .
By the way watch a few video nice work .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: A serious reply!

I started this thread to add a bit of humour to some of the posting lately .
It getting serious now .
Let keep the humour going .

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: A serious reply!

Some more remote places may be cheaper when you get there but the other expense to bear in mind is that the further you go away from the UK/Europe the more it will cost to get back. It's fine if you do not want to bother returning but most have family commitments/friends and if you are, for example, in South America or even the Pacific Ocean, return travel for two plus the costs when you get back to the UK, is bound to blow a hole in any small budget

 

[steveej]

@stevej
You're the same age as me. As you say, different ways to skin the cat. I guess you plan on leaving after the kids have flown the nest; we plan to take ours with us.

To answer your question, no I don't intend to live on the hook over winter in the Med. Nor does the idea of getting a berth for winter appeal at all. Everybody had their own version of the dream, and for us it is to keep on moving, so that probably rules out the Med. I can live with that.

As others have said, it depends so much on peoples circumstances. I have a job that is very specialist/niche and changes very quickly. If I took 4 years out now to do say a circumnavigation, I would never be able to get back into it. I would effectively have to start again with a career change and the inevitable drop in salary that would come with that, whilst trying to support a family returning to land.

My kids are 3 and 4 and get bored on passages more than about 4 hours. I would never take them across the Atlantic because I personally don't think it would be fair on them. They like to play with their playdough and are not interested in sailing the boat. I would have to sail the boat myself or with friends and fly the wife and kids over and accept the expense. Sure, some places in the Caribbean and Asia would be nice and cheap but not French Polynesia or Australia. What about the suez canal / red sea. No way I am taking my wife and two daughters through there. Boat would probably getting shipped to the med at a lot of expense.



For me, it would be a nice thing to do for a number of years and then perhaps do some instructing and deliveries to top up the pension in old age. At 37 to be a full time livaboard doing it for the rest of my life I know I would get bored.

Different if you have a skill set where you can just walk back into a job at home when you have had enough.

 

[GHA]

As others have said, it depends so much on peoples circumstances.

Reading this and other threads, it seems much more to do with how you're made. . Which results in your circumstances.
Lots on here seem plenty happy to spend years in the Med with, by the sounds of it, crowded anchorages and charter boats

Which, IMHO, seems such a waste - huge world out there to explore - after a while in an area doesn't everyone yearn to weeks of trade winds blowing you across an ocean to another continent to explore?
Obviously not so why judge, each to their own.
At a guess the majority of people who get it together to go cruising on a budget are more inclined to head off the beaten track and less likely to be found around the Med.

Though the 'anti' arguments by and large don't cut it born from just how your brain is wired rather than reality - want to cruise the planet without spending lots of money - you can, lots of people do, most of the obstructions only exist in peoples heads.

 

[sailaboutvic]

The Med has 21 country and over a million sq miles of seas plus two continents three if you hold up the argument Asia and Africa are two separate continents .
over the 28 years I had visit all but two . And I only seen a small tiny amount there so much more to see .
Admittedly some have very strict law that have to be abided to the letter when entering the country .
I have come across the odd pain in the ass officials but most very welcoming.
Most country's you can sail from one to another without talking to any officials
As someone suggested the Med is over crowed with charter boats and anchorage are over flowing , I sorry to say what he been reading is very misleading .
There are small pockets in the Med where his statements stands in the summer month, but compare to the size of the Med it's very very tiny.
There pockets are around the Balearics islands in the south of Spain , the Ionian island although the further south you go the less there are , in and around Athens .
Some parts of Croatia.
And a few areas in Turkey which are getting less and less popular in these times .
there start around mid June to mid sept July and Aug the worst months .
It does mean at time you have to sail through these pocket to get to better parts .

Unlike place like the Caribbeans you can sail for a good nine months it you wanted to even longer there tens of thousand of anchorages islands and safe harbour .
Most within day sails , within a over night sail you can be in a different country .
We so far have visited two continents and four countries this year .
I have no personal experiences what the cost of living are in some out of the way island in the South Pacific island where they still wear no clothes and like a bit of human flesh with there Sunday dinner , but by what I am told by many friends the cost of sailing Else where isn't any cheaper then in Europe and in many cases a lot more , Ozzie friends tell us there couldn't do or live the way they do here back home .

Every year we are ask to help sail a boat over , every year I refuse . I have no interest to sit on a boat for 15/20 days and bobbing up and down and see nothing but sea .trade winds or not .
Everyone I know who done it have said the same thing , good experience we ticked it off , never want to do it again . Am I right Tony and Ian
We in the eastern Aegean now the last three night we had the anchorages all to our self if you don't count the British yacht who wanted to hug us the other night .
We been sailing for seven hour to day and not seen each yacht .
We just anchored in a bay with two other yacht .
I believe if you can't make ends meet sailing in the Med or in Europe you have the same problem else where .